#89 Balanced Bodies, Balanced Minds with Bérénice Roussel

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:00:02-00:00:10]
In this episode, we're talking with Berenice Roussel, a professional rider and coach, balance through movement method trainer, and Lazarus nerve release practitioner.

[SPEAKER 1]
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The biggest understanding for me now is that the horse has the answer, if we can listen and if we can understand what the horse is talking about.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Welcome to the Equestrian Connection podcast from Wehorse. My name is Danielle Crowell and I'm your host. Berenice Roussel is a professional rider holding a Diplôme d'État de la Jeunesse de l'Éducation Populaire et du Sport, a specialized state-recognized diploma in France for becoming an expert equestrian coach and trainer. offered at the IFCE's training center at Cadre Noir in Samoir. The training focuses on developing high-level coaching skills, including training design, athlete development, and secure, competent training methods for competitive equestrian sports. Berenice is also the only French-speaking balance through movement method trainer and Lazarus nerve release practitioner. Today we'll be discussing her journey with classical dressage, the link between anatomy, biomechanics, nervous system, and the spirit of the horse, and her experience learning in another country and language. Let's get started. Berenice, welcome to the WeHorse podcast. I'm so excited to chat with you today.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy.

[SPEAKER 2]
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So you have a really interesting start, both with Emily Ayotte and then Anja Beran, which Anja is actually a WeHorse trainer with us. So I'd love to start there. Can you tell us about your journey training in classical dressage with both of those powerhouse women in Germany and then also being a working student for seven months?

[SPEAKER 1]
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Sure. So actually, to understand that part of my journey, I will bring you back to when I was a teenager. So when I was 13, I got my first Spanish horse, Roque. So I was 13 and he was super green. So my parents told me that I needed to be with a teacher so I could train that horse properly. And that teacher was my first classical dressage teacher. He's the one who brought me to biomechanics and my quest for balance, lightness, autonomy for the horse. So when I did my, so I followed my professional journey and I did my DGES, so the diploma I have from France. And that was mostly show jumping. So we didn't have any lesson in dressage. which I found really sad. And so I didn't feel legitimate to teach or even to train. So I made a list of inspiring people I wanted to work with. And this is what brought me to Emily first in France. She is herself. She has a very solid background in passport dressage because she trained with students from Lino Oliveira. So this is really classical world. And in the meantime, she is also really linked to biomechanics. And she has a very holistic view of the horse because she trains with Dr. Radier in France. So he's the father of neck extension training. But that was a great way to blend both modern concepts and classical work before going to Anya's place. I had a little bit more of technical stuff and a slightly better level after my training in show jumping. And then I went to Anya, who was also on my list. And that was a wonderful time. It was a great dive into the classical world, whether it is for the way we were training horses, but also even the tag, the outfit, everything was super classical. It was great. I've learned a lot of discipline out there and all the ideas of gymnastics for the horse so it was great to see all the different horses from Spanish ones, Ramblers to ponies go through this program following the master's principles that was wonderful especially as a working student because so I was working for Anya whether training my horse, the horses from the foundation, because she has a foundation for students to ride and train, and they are usually horses, whether they were not good enough to compete in more modern competition world, I would say, or horses that were struggling in more ordinary programs. She would take them and train them, and then they were made for the students. So that was great to play with all the different horses and go to learn all the balance, the lightness. That was wonderful. Again, a lot of techniques. In the meantime, I really wanted to get a little bit more of the theory behind why we were doing those things. why we had to train for jab and fast and and how we could bring balance and autonomy for the horse which is like my really big quest i would say how we could do that um in a way that would really hold and last for the horse after the moments we are training the horse For the 23 plus hours, we are not with the horse. So this is where I found a little bit, like for me, a limit, I would say, plus for dressage. So this is, yeah, that was awesome. And this is also one of the reasons why I kept searching and I wrote all the names on my list, I would say. So keep training and keep learning. I really keep, I would say, most of the lessons I've learned, all of them actually from classical dressage. Today in my training, they just have a slightly different shape now. So I keep the idea of going slow. like slow in the way we train the horse in order to be fast in the global picture. And also we take the time, we slow down in each gate, take the time to balance the horse before asking anything else, have good precise heads and an emotionally regulated horse. And in the meantime, there are things I do a little bit differently. The order where I go to lateral work and the high school movements. So, yeah, I still have all the lessons and the needs to work as a team, but it's just slightly differently organized now.

[SPEAKER 2]
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And now, do you apply that to like some of those principles that you've taken away to every single horse, regardless of the discipline? So, for example, a show jumper or I know you've done some cattle work and like things like that recently in the US. Do you apply those same principles regardless of the horse's discipline?

[SPEAKER 1]
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Yes, actually, I think they are really key. and these are principles that can be used for any horse because balance, lightness, and having heads that are super clear for the horse, this is required for me for any kind of horse no matter what discipline he will do and where he will be specialized. For example, for the show jumpers, I need to have a horse capable of bend and turn and balancing itself in walk, trot, canter, even before going to jump and to practice over poles. So for me, these are the really main components of classical massage, or just mastering the basics. And then once you have that, you can play with anything that you want for the horse, whether it is trail rides or cattle work where I could really find and that was really funny because that was a clinic with other condiments in the US for cattle work and so I had the chance to open her horses her very own horses because I obviously couldn't bring mine and that was wonderful to feel the collection the level of collection and balance of those horses I could really find the same thing as when I was with Ania so That was another very good reminder of how classical dressage is for the horse, first and foremost, and not the other way around. So definitely, everything is connected. And this is, yeah, the great start for me, classical dressage, in terms of searching for balance and lightness.

[SPEAKER 2]
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So cool. I love that. Speaking of balance, you then have gone on to not only learn from the Balance Through Movement Method and the Lazarus Nerve Release, but you've also become a Balance Through Movement Method trainer and a Lazarus Nerve Release practitioner. Why did you decide to learn from those methodologies and then now work with them?

[SPEAKER 1]
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Well, when I was still working with Anya, I had a little bit more time than I have now to learn about anatomy and biomechanics. So I would spend a lot of time at the library looking for the books and trying to understand why we were doing all these movements to help the horse. And so I kept searching mostly on the Internet and I found the Facebook masterclass. the last master class and I started watching the videos and the way she was explaining how the horse moves the importance of for having a very strong thoracic sling in order for the horse to truly collect and push into the ground all those ideas were really talking to me because I was also still searching for a way to support the horse when we are not working with the horse. And this is something that really matters to me, having truly balanced horses for themselves when we don't train. And so this is what brought me to Celeste. And then we just started working. I took lessons with Catherine, Laurie. I was on the team. And yeah, and that was really, that became my game changer, my passion. I also started working my horse, who was at Anya's place, a little bit playing with Pillarwork, Pillar Run. And we would both see changes, very interesting changes. even just doing a few minutes of Pillar 1 static. So at first, not a big deal, but finally something that was giving me clear explanation on what is self-carriage for the horse, both theory and practical application. And then for the NeuroPolice, When I was a kid, I also wanted to be an equine osteopath. And I love the idea that we can help the horse by putting the hands on the horse and really feeling how the tissue feels, be capable of finding tension even before it becomes to be a problem. So connecting what I would see, what I would feel under saddle and what I could feel in my hands. So this is for me a blend that that I really love and yeah, and being, nerve release speaks to me because it's pretty gentle and it takes you to account the nervous system of the horse and the consent of the horse. So that was my perfect blend at that time and still today.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Yeah, so cool. You say you're particularly interested in the link between anatomy, biomechanics and the nervous system, but you also add in the spirit of the horse, which I love. What discoveries have you made within that link of, you know, those four different things during your studies and now also your work?

[SPEAKER 1]
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Well, what matters to me was at first knowing about anatomy and biomechanics. And then BTMM brought me to the nervous system. And then it made me realize that obviously everything is connected within the horse. One thing cannot go without the other. And so this is where I realized and This is something that Steffi Schmidt-Hauser speaks a lot about. But soundness, and she's right about it, is not just about physical soundness, but also the sense of safety for the horse. And so I started to realize that I could make my own blends and read the horse. So, for example, I work a lot with the polyvinyl theory. that allows me to have a new lens on the horse behavior. And so from their behavior, I have a better understanding of how they move, how they feel, if they feel safe or not. And I can also understand what is happening in the body that could prevent them to feel safe. And all these ideas brought me to more recently to Tensegrity, all the ideas of how everything is interconnected and works together. And all of that also allowed me to trust myself a little bit more, my intuition, trust my guts. And for me, this is connected to what I call the spirit of the horse. Because I'm pretty convinced they talk to us if we are trying to listen to the horse, truly. And so this is the intuitive part. Because I'm convinced if you If you have a deep understanding of what is happening, whether it is the biological lens or training or behavioral lens, then you blend that all together and it's just talking with the horse. The biggest understanding for me now is that the horse has the answer. If we can listen and if we can understand what the horse is talking about, then we need to know quite deep what is happening.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Absolutely. I love that so much. And you say, you know, I'm convinced and I'm like, hey, you don't have to convince me. I'm right there with you. I fully agree.

[SPEAKER 1]
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That's cool. I think we're more and more.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Yeah. When you look back on like when you first got started with training and coaching, because you did start with, you know, like a certification and you got the education and you're very well rounded in your approach, you know, even from the beginning as a trainer and as a coach to other equestrians. When you look back on the early days, how has your training and coaching changed from then until now?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:16:02-00:18:40]
It has changed a lot, definitely. When I remember the first time when I was training, for example, I was much more following the ordinary program, I would say. For example, when riding a horse, I would be a lot under-subtle, mostly not really working in hands. I would do pretty... ordinary stuff because I was following my feelings a little bit to make decisions but I was not trusting myself as much as I start gently to do it now so now I would say I can I try to the best of my abilities to keep the horse first and don't feel the pressure that society or other kids friends can have on me uh for example with show jumping horses it's so easy to to have someone telling you you should jump this horse this many times a week and then he will be ready and so on but if the horse is not ready now i have to i start to empower myself to say he is not ready and i have to do so many different steps before so this is part of the things that have changed for me because I have more tools now to assess where my horse is and meet the horse at the point where he is and decide what he truly needs to improve himself before even thinking about my goal or the competition that is coming. The biggest change for me for training has been truly starting to be a voice for my horse. And when I coach, now it's the same idea. I want the rider to understand why we're doing stuff and not just apply blindly some techniques. I want the rider to understand why the horse is moving the way it's moving and take decisions from that and use the horse posture, behavior, well-being, as a metric for success and not just being good as a competition or bringing the ribbon back. So now I give a lot of explanations to my writers so they know what to do and they are empowered in their training, not just following my advice. They are more than welcome to ask questions and tell me if they disagree or don't understand.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:18:45-00:19:23]
your original training also like some of the things that it focused on um was like training design and athlete development which is it's like you said pretty standard it's kind of cut and dry you're like okay we're gonna do this four-week program we do this this day we do that this day we do this you know and like a b c d d and you're just kind of going through your little checklist and That is obviously different for you now. So now, how do you plan your sessions? If you have a horse in training or working with your own horse, how do you plan your sessions in contrast to that checklist?

[SPEAKER 1]
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So now what I do, I still keep a few things from what I learned before. So mostly in the way I build and use the sessions for, is it very intense or how long will it be? So this, I keep the same ideas because they were good concepts to balance the amount of work the host was receiving. But now I will, so I always start, try to always start my sessions in hand. because I will lead the horse through the pillow work for example I will check for one two three so that will be mostly checking for is my horse with me how does he feel today how does he move do I have a horse capable of pushing into all four corners, the balance, quite balanced, or what is happening within the body that I can already support on the ground. I will also check in with myself. So for example, going through the ideas of rider pillars from Catherine Lowry's BTMM. So I will check with my breath and see if I'm grounded. And all those ideas are now super important for me because what matters the most is how we both feel the session. How do we feel and are we capable of both learning something today as individuals? And then when everything is fine on the ground, the length really depends on the horse and what is happening. But that can be super quick or a little bit longer. But then I will hop on the horse and I will check again, where do we balance ourselves? What about our relationship to contact with the pit or side pool or anything else that I'm using? And then when I have all my checklist, my new checklist, fine. Then I will go to the more specialized exercises and training and work towards the goal of the horse, whether it is just a rehab or training. if it is because we have a competition coming or anything else. But even if it takes, whether it takes five minutes or 25 minutes or more, I will try to go through those different stages to be sure that my horse is regulated, that I am regulated, and that we are both ready to learn something and benefit from the session. Something I allow myself to do now that I was really trying to avoid before. But if I feel tired, I'm fine now just being with the horse and not really working as can be understood. And my clients understand that and they know it. I really don't hide that. But I find it much more efficient if I don't feel like working with the horse or if the horse doesn't feel ready to work that day. I find it much better to do something else. I can use body work. We can just go for a walk, do some sand work. I mean, there are so many things that can be done, but the guideline is having a horse ready for what we are doing and a horse that will enjoy the moment more than anything else.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:22:53-00:23:37]
Hmm. That's so good. I'm definitely taking notes of that. I'm thinking, okay, we're going to, we're going to really listen to this section so that I can implement those things into my own, because I know for myself and I'm sure many listening, there are some days when you think I'm just short on time. So I'm just going to jump on, like, I'm just going to hop on. I'm just going to do my thing. And sometimes you leave and you think, ah, that wasn't, you know, it, Wasn't really the best. Maybe I could have gone a little bit slower. Maybe I could have done something different. Like you said, if I'm not really feeling it, there's other things to do rather than hop on for a quick ride. So yeah, I love that so much, that format that you have, like those...

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:23:38-00:24:23]
um those things that you always work on and then have like okay these are all good now we go on to you know the um the exercises and those sorts of things yeah i really try to to go by that rule now Because I remember when I was younger, when I was actively a show jumper, I was quite often really frustrated because that didn't make sense for me to push the horse or go in for a specific exercise when the horse was not ready. But I wouldn't support myself or my horse in those moments. I was just saying like, okay, we go for it. But that didn't feel good.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:24:24-00:26:27]
and that didn't make us improve faster or anything so that was just my answer like it's not one session where you will you don't feel like going for it if you don't go for it it's fine i mean sometimes obviously we have to find a balance and just do a little bit and maybe then we get ready and we can push a little bit more um but not always and yeah i'm following again our intuition i mean the horse knows so yeah the other thing that i love that you mentioned is giving yourself the permission to pivot based on how you're feeling as well um there's a lot of times that like these icky feelings of guilt seem to come in for a lot of people where it's like I'm not riding enough. I'm not advancing, you know, fast enough or the same as, you know, everybody else that I see or X, Y, Z, whatever it might be. These feelings of guilting or shoulding on ourselves. that come up that I should be doing this even though I had a really hard day at work or even though I had a really long day or even though I've gotten all this other stuff going on in my life I should be doing these other things and it's like you know you can give yourself permission to like you said just be with your horse or just go for a walk or just like hang out while they graze do some body work you know like whatever it might be I mean as long as you're regulated when doing the body work like but You know, all of that stuff where it's like taking the weight and the guilt off of ourselves that we, quote, should be moving along and advancing and working on all these different things when maybe we just got stuff going on that isn't allowing us to show up fully. So I love that you said that as well, because it's a really important topic. Yeah.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:26:28-00:28:14]
Yeah, I think so. And we still need to, well, when the society will give us permission to do it every time, then that will be a great success. But one of the things that works for me, like when I left Ania, so I left because I had to grow my barn and I had work in France. But I went to a point where I had a very, very precise and deep fit. So I was super efficient for my fit. And I knew that when I would leave, I would lose a little bit of that because I don't have my place. I don't have horses that I can train every day to plow, passage, tenty, and all those technical movements that allowed me to go into that deep seat. And what truly helped me was working with Catherine Laurie again because she showed me how I could find that seat again and train it again. being mindful of where I am in space and how I move with very gentle moves and this is where I even more understood how important it is to be present in the moment be really mindful and this is what helps you to be more efficient instead of just going for it and pushing into my body where I was in pain too because I was writing a lot and that was pretty intense so I was also in pain but just Feeling how I move, how I feel my breath and understand and know a little bit better my body. It gives me the same sense as when I was writing all day long. It's those very specific movements.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:28:19-00:28:32]
You also have a mental preparation for athlete certification. And so considering your coaching, how does that training and background help you when you're coaching other equestrians?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:28:34-00:29:55]
Well, that was a quite short certification, so it's more like an intro for mental training and preparation. But I still use it a lot, and I really love it because it helps highlight the importance of having a relaxed human to interact with the horse, even becoming a rider. And it gives me actual tools to manage a rider that would be stressed or anxious have some fear of riding or being around horses. So we build routines through breath work or some physical moves that will help the rider focus again and be more present. So having that certification, people reached out more easily when they feel pressured or when they have some kind of anxiety around horses. So that helps me to guide them back to their body so they become better riders. And it's a way for me to highlight how important it is for us as humans to be regulated in order to be clear with the horse and to be capable of reading all the information the horse is giving us. There are tons of information and sometimes it's a lot.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:29:57-00:30:48]
There are a lot of equestrians, and of course I'm not speaking for everybody, but there are a lot of ones that they find the discipline they like the most and then they stick with it. Maybe it is dressage. They love dressage. They stay within the dressage realm. Maybe it's jumping. Maybe it's raining. You know, whatever it might be, they kind of are brought up in that world and then they stay in it. And When I look at your journey, so you went from show jumping in France to classical dressage in Germany to herding cattle on the range in America. And I just think it's so cool how varied your experiences have been. With those varied experiences in mind, how has that impacted your horsemanship?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:30:51-00:34:11]
I love that. For me, that was... This is super important to see many, many different things because in the end, what interests me is horses more than jumping or dressage or anything. It gives me even more love for horses now than when I started because that allowed me to see what truly matters for horses. And I think having a purpose is what I will take from all those experiences, like seeing how the horse can really wake up in some way around cows and, and enjoy it and be actively working with the riders and, Everyone is connected in those moments. That gives me really the will in my daily life to give them a purpose, a job, in any kind of training. So whether I'm doing jumping or just training dressage, I really pay attention that my horse is actively playing with me. I got that chance to feel how it feels to be with a horse that wants to work with a human. And in the meantime, the horses that I saw in cattle work, as well as passport dressage or anything, they all need balance and lightness because it's obviously super connected to the mind. So that's for sure. Horses need to be balanced to feel safe. And also the other way around, you cannot help them be balanced if they don't feel safe to listen to you and trust you. So when you can have that perfect blend, I would say, trying to have that blend and then bring it to really as many situations as you can. It's a great way of being around horses. And for me, this is real life. Like having a horse that can either go trail riding, cantering on the beach, and then being around cows or then being in the arena for a dressage test or even eventing. Like this is how a healthy horse should be, in my opinion. So now I no longer prevent a horse from being around different animals. activities and for example i have a mare in training she's a she's a show jumper um she's eight years old she was trained very actively in show jumping for the past years and now she's to a point where she she did last year 50 50 laps in show jumpings a lot it's insane and now she's super scared even even cantering is kind of problem so my goal for her is to try to show her there is a real job that can be done, there is a real purpose, and she can actively play with the human. And so I think I will bring her to working equitation even before going back to the show ring. And maybe she will like it and understand it's not just about running in the arena and that's it.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:34:14-00:34:21]
I think working at Cretaceous is so cool. I definitely want to do more of it. I'm like trying to find all the different things I can get my husband to build.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:34:21-00:34:24]
Oh, that's cool. Yeah.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:34:24-00:35:28]
Yeah. No, I think the varied, varied training for horses is so important and more and more trainers are starting to talk about it and more and more like body workers and, and things like that are starting to discuss it that it's, Just constantly doing ring work is doing a disservice to our horses' bodies and then also our horses' minds. Audrey Anthony, who was on the podcast a few weeks ago, we were discussing ethical breeding. And she said that she takes her Grand Prix dressage horses and she goes out and she herds cattle with them. And I just think it's so cool to, you know, to add that in. And we don't always have the, that's not always an option, right? So for me, I don't have any cows nearby that I'm going to go and herd with my horses, but I do have some trails in the woods. And so I can, you know, leave the ring and then go and ride out on the hills. And the light that I see come in my horse's eyes when I do that. Sure.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:35:28-00:37:07]
just to have that varied um experiences for them I just think is so important so you know the more that we can kind of think how can I keep this interesting for my horse how can I keep this interesting for me you know how can we have more experiences together um I think is is a really important conversation yeah it is and especially it those varied experiences is what builds relationships with the horse because the lack of varied experiences activities is what also can kill a relationship or bring like horses will start to shut down because they always do the same thing like go out of the barn or the field and go to the ring and and so on and even if you think you're doing varied things like pole work or sometimes you jump, sometimes you do dressage this is very for us but absolutely not for them, like the environment is the same there's nothing else new to have a look at or smell so that's why even just playing around different places and changing the path when you go on trail rides, trying new things This is why I also really, really love scent work and try to play with it as much as possible because it gives power to the horse in a world where we decide for a lot in horses. We decide for everything in their lives. Just letting them a little bit more choice and changing what happens in the different situations we bring them in.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:37:09-00:37:48]
Absolutely. Speaking of different situations, looking at yourself for the different situations that you have been. So you're originally from France, you've gone to Germany, you've gone to the U.S. What was it like going to these different countries and different languages to learn and to study and to train under? You know, like, I'm sure there was a lot of fear involved, or I would assume maybe that wasn't the case, but... One would think there would be a little bit of fear or hesitation involved with taking that leap. What was that like and how did you overcome if there was fear?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:37:51-00:40:31]
Well, obviously there was fear. There's still some fear sometimes. So I grew up with my mom telling me that we have to be citizens of the world more than the country. So I really, really loved the idea of growing new roots. and meeting new people, really building my community in the world. This is something I've always been interested in. Since I'm a kid, I've always wanted to go abroad and discover everything. So that's, for me now, it's super exciting and I'm so happy to open my mind to different cultures and different ways of seeing horses and just even managing horses and all the different boarding facilities it gives me ideas for my own place you know it's just a really a good way to open your mind and and yeah build experience and and change well it's not change but open and improve your behavior as a human you know be a more empathy and so on and And for the fear, I remember sometimes when I think about how I reached out to Anya, because I wrote an email and she answered. I was super surprised. I was so very happy. And I remember in the mail she said, OK, so when can you come to the place to visit and try and ride a little bit? And I was like, oh, my God, I have to go now. And so I went on a plane. It was during COVID. And so that was pretty hard to have a plane and just go to Germany. And then I went there and a horse was waiting for me. So I hopped on the horse and did a 10-minute session with her. And she said, okay, we're good. Now you wait for me to call you back. And that was very funny. But yeah, I mean, it's just having to go for it. Even if you're feeling qualified, I would say. This is really how I felt. I said, I need to learn. I don't know what I've learned so far. Maybe not much. I need the complete experience. Treat me as a beginner. It's always what I say. I want to be treated as someone who doesn't know anything and is just here to learn everything you have to give me. And then maybe at some point I will do my own blend when I will feel confident for that. But just Yeah, keep a very open mind and go for it, because if you don't, you will regret it.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:40:34-00:41:34]
Absolutely. When I was 20, so I live in Canada and I'm in Nova Scotia, which is the furthest east you can go in Canada. And when I was 20, I got a job. Same thing. I just like sent a message to this farm that was in Alberta, which is the complete other side. It's not the furthest west you can go, but it's one province in. And so it was on the other side of the country. And Canada is a pretty big country. And so when I, they said, okay, let's flop you out for an interview, you know, come in for the weekend sort of thing. They, here's your plane ticket. And so I, you know, I got on the flight, first time ever flying. And I found out afterwards that before I had left, my dad, my father actually, he called them and like, was like, where is she?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:41:34-00:42:49]
Like, who is this where is she going you know like making making sure that I was going somewhere legit and you know finding out the address and all this stuff it was pretty funny but I mean I don't I don't blame them for doing that you know like when we're we are taking these chances and doing these things but it you still have to be like okay let's you know let's be thinking about this yeah yeah yeah this is something I never thought about it I think um I find it great that your parents checked. Mine didn't. They just said, whoa, go for it. Well, I say that, but when I met Catherine, and then I went to the U.S. a year later to work with her, but when I first met her, that was in Canada, and my dad went with me. That was a pretty long trip, and that was just for a three-day clinic. But we said, okay, we go. So yeah, maybe it's a little bit something coming from my blood, I would say. Like my parents are a little bit the same. But yeah, definitely. Yeah, I mean, go for it. That would be my advice. Just send the message and try. There's nothing to lose.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:42:49-00:43:11]
Yeah, I love that. You are currently the only French-speaking Balance Through Movement Method trainer and Lazara's nerve release practitioner. What is it like bringing something new to your country? Like, how has that been? And then do you have any advice for others who might be trying to introduce something new to their area as well?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:43:15-00:46:44]
It is. It is. Terry? Yeah. It's so scary. I'm really honored to be representing BTMM and neurophysiology in France. It's not always easy in France because of the language barrier. Everything is in English. I'm really happy to represent it and now I have more content to show people how it works and the results we can have. It's easier now because People have feedback and they can trust me a little bit faster, I would say. So my biggest advice would be to stay yourself. And this is the strength of BTMM too. You don't replicate people following ideas. You come to BTMM with your knowledge, your previous training. And then you play with the BTMM lens. But your experience is really important and it brings value to the team. And so being the only friend speaking also allows me to show my work through BTMM lens, obviously, but from my previous experiences too. which is really great. And yeah, if I had advice, that would be to, if possible, bring content in your language. This is something I have to work on, like translating, for example, the PL01 video would be really helpful. When I will have time, I will do it. I have to find time. It's always easy. But this is something that can help, especially when it's quite different it is different for France because here in France we have all the old masters stories and books and things that were meant to be updated too this is something people forget about but they are a little bit reluctant to listen to something new because they will label it as new and they will say nothing is new everything has already been written which is not really true like It is common sense. It's good biomechanics and knowledge around the horse. But so in order to really show something new in your country, the first thing I think is to stay yourself and be clear in what you have to say. to the owners or give the explanations that are required and don't fall into the people pleasing habits, just trying to convince people. I think this is a little bit the mistake I made at the very beginning because I am really convinced in BTMM and how I can blend it with my work. But then I was trying to convince people instead of just giving clear explanations on how and why it can work if you do the work. This is where it's super important. I mean, there's no magic. If you don't commit to it, nothing will change. So, yeah, push yourself and bring content in the language of your country. That helps.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:46:45-00:47:14]
Yes. Yeah. That's definitely like applicable, like tangible advice. But I also love what you said too about just like stay true to you. Like if you believe in it, just show others, you know, show the results rather than like you had said, trying to like people please and convince them and everything like that. Like stay staying in the worth that you know that you bring. I love that advice. That's really, really good.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:47:15-00:47:44]
Yeah, because if you don't stay true to you, people will be disappointed if they take your words as granted and then don't see the improvements in their horse. They will not understand. And then you have a problem because you're kind of bringing back that picture to the methodology, which is just a misunderstanding. Like, obviously, if you don't do the work, if you don't commit, nothing will change. Makes sense. Yeah.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:47:45-00:47:45]
Absolutely.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:47:46-00:47:46]
Absolutely.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:47:48-00:48:03]
I have been asking everybody this question for the past couple of years, it feels like, where we have seen some changes, good and bad, in the equestrian industry. So I would love to know, what is your hope for the future of the equestrian industry?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:48:06-00:50:05]
It's not an easy question. Finally, it's hard because we are indeed a very interesting turning point, both in the equestrian world and the world, the overall. So my, my hope for the future would be that we, we remember why we are around horses, you know, that, so we can put the horse first again, but for that, we have to remember as, human and the kids we were before, why we started to be around those beautiful creatures. Because the amount of people that I get to be around and meet that are more interested in the sport or competition, they are more interested in that than they are just around horses. And this is something that I find interesting. weird if not terrifying because what can lead you to an animal like horses if it's not for the horse itself so yeah I hope that we will remember why We are around horses, how much we love them, and there are reasons for us to dream as kids. And so we can truly put the horse first again. And it doesn't mean that we cannot compete. I deeply believe it's possible, but it's just different than what we are doing now. Maybe let them grow a little bit more and respect them. But for that, we have to step a little bit away from the all the economy that is related to that. Not, obviously, economy is important because it makes, it turns, it builds all the equestrian worlds. But I think we can do both to some extent, or at least it's my hope for the industry.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:50:07-00:50:22]
I love that. That's a beautiful answer. Thank you. And then finally, we have four rapid-fire questions that we ask all of our podcast guests. It's just like the first thing that comes to mind. The first is, do you have a motto or a favorite saying?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:50:23-00:51:24]
Oh, it's not really a motto. It's a favorite saying, I would say. Instead of using the exercise to get to the results, Try to get your horse ready before doing the exercise. So I don't know if that's clear, but that's the idea. Like if you, I don't know, for example, you want to do a shoulder in, some people will really try to do the shoulder in first and foremost. They don't check with any other exercise before. Maybe you can try to just check that your horse is capable of going to halt remaining balance, has a good relationship to contact, can go for a good turn. And then when you have all those components ready, you can try and go for a shoulder in for one step, maybe, or half a step. And then rinse and repeat if it's not successful. So, yeah, get the horse ready beforehand. going for the exercise. So you don't only rely on the exercise for the results.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:51:26-00:51:31]
So good. Who has been the most influential person in your equestrian journey?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:51:33-00:52:44]
Oh, all of them. Every person in my equestrian journey. the BTM family I will call it like that and yeah most specifically Catherine Lurie again because she when I was a teenager and I was searching for like this is really my quest for balance I will call it like that because I was I've always been convinced the horse can carry the rider and carry itself with minimal aids and works from the rider But that has always been my goal. And I didn't know if it was possible. And then when I met Catherine, she represents what I expect as a dressage trainer because she's searching for the same thing. And so it gave me validation somehow. And so the way she's going through life and all the experiences she had to go through and how she had to build and rebuild herself is truly an inspiration for me. So, yeah, she is my safe place and safe person.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:52:44-00:53:07]
That's such a nice thing to say. Catherine, I hope you're listening to this episode. I'm sure you are. That's such a lovely thing saying, you know, she's the safe space is so nice. If you could give equestrians one piece of advice, what would it be? And I know that you gave really good advice with the exercise one there earlier. So if that's it, great. But if you have another piece of advice.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:53:11-00:54:21]
What I would like for our guests to know or to take from that podcast, maybe that would be try to learn about courses as much as you can, like biology, anatomy, behavior, nervous system. Because to me, knowing really deep those informations and really searching for that is what gives you your own opinions and allows you to make good decisions around regarding who is working with you and who you're working with like taking professionals because what they say makes sense and is true because the amount of people that are giving advice but from a standpoint that is more than incorrect Just in terms of anatomy or biomechanics, it's a little bit crazy. So obviously, we are all learning all the time. But that's why if a gastroenterologist can have their very own background and set of information, for me, it's super helpful.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:54:22-00:54:29]
Absolutely. And then the last one, please complete this sentence. For me, horses are...

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:54:29-00:55:46]
For me, horses are my greatest teachers in life. They made it nice, but they are the reason why I am who I am now. Yeah, my mom had very severe health problems when I was a teen that go on still now. And I'm pretty convinced horses are the reason why I work so hard on my emotional regulation, for example, and I overcome the trauma I've been through. Because they were still here at every step of the very hard years. And so, yeah, there are reasons why I went to search for more information about human psychology and how I could feel better. For me, that was first and foremost for the horse. But then I realized it was feeling better for me first. And so, yeah, they are very good reflection on who you are and where you are in life. And they are really good guys. And if something is wrong, they just bring you back to the ground and you understand the lesson.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:55:49-00:56:01]
That's so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. Sure. Bernice, where can people find you? How can they connect with you? We're going to put all the links in the show notes. Feel free to promote yourself.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:56:02-00:57:04]
Oh, hard job. So I have a website. That can be found through my Instagram and Facebook page. I'm on Facebook just under my name. I have a professional page, but I don't really use it much. It's more my personal one that is made public. So yeah, they can find me there. And then I'm located in France, but I give online sessions too in French and English. And I'm really open to travel anywhere around the world so I can I keep being a traveler and I try to go to the U.S. at least once a year. So, yeah, online session or France. I'm close to Paris. I'm like two hours south of Paris. I have a boarding facility and training center. And, yeah, otherwise through Facebook mostly and a little bit Instagram, trying to be better at it.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:57:05-00:57:19]
Yeah. We're going to put the links in the show notes for your website so that people can find you, you know, book a clinic with you, book a session with you online or in person, and connect with you on social media on Facebook and Instagram. Yeah.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:57:20-00:57:21]
Thank you.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:57:21-00:57:30]
Thank you so much for being here. It was an absolute pleasure having you on and speaking with you and reconnecting with you. So thank you so much for being here.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:57:30-00:57:33]
Thank you so much. It's a great chance to be here.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:57:35-00:58:08]
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Equestrian Connection podcast by WeHorse. If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a rating and review as well as share us on social media. You can find us on Instagram at WeHorse underscore USA and check out our free seven-day trial on WeHorse.com where you can access over 175 courses with top trainers from around the world in a variety of topics and disciplines. Until next time, be kind to yourself, your horses and others.

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