#81 Riding Big with John Haime

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:00:02-00:00:08]
In this episode, we're talking with John Haime, leading performance coach and author of the bestselling book, Ride Big.

[SPEAKER 1]
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And there's a lot of self-doubt in riding. And I think just a really strong statement to yourself, four words, I am good enough. I am good enough. Because often riders don't think they're good enough. They don't think they have what it takes maybe, but they do.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Welcome to the Equestrian Connection podcast from Wehorse. My name is Danielle Crowell, and I'm your host. John Haim is one of the leading performance coaches in high-level sports and works regularly for some of the world's top showjumpers and eventers, as well as everyday young riders in all disciplines. He is also the author of the popular bestselling book, Ride Big, a guide to confidence in equestrian sport embraced by equestrians at all levels. John's experience ranges from working with some of the world's leading athletes in the major professional sports leagues, regularly coaching C-level executives in Fortune 100 companies, and he has education in psychology, neuroscience, emotional intelligence, communication, and executive coaching. In this episode, we'll be discussing the impact and importance of confidence in equestrian sport, the purpose of a performance coach, and how you can go from riding small to riding big. Let's dive in. John, welcome to the WeHorse podcast. I know this is technically your second time on our podcast, and I'm really, really excited to welcome you back today. So thanks for speaking with me.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:01:39-00:01:56]
Yeah, thanks, Danielle. I do remember the first time with Christian right after the book came out, the Ride Big book. So that was a super fun conversation. And I'm sure this one will be too. And we can hopefully help some people out there kind of ride a little bit bigger.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Absolutely. So I would love to know what led to you adding equestrians to your clientele as a high level performance coach?

[SPEAKER 1]
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Yeah, it seems a bit weird coming from the NFL and the PGA Tour and the NBA and all these different sports that I have worked in and, you know, in working with amateurs at, you know, all levels in these different sports. But a friend of mine got in touch with me, obviously knowing what I do, and asked me if I could help his daughter out. who was a meter 20 show jumper. She wasn't feeling confident. She wasn't doing as well. And she was, she was almost ready to quit the sport, which I think a lot of people kind of get into that situation, right? They just go down in the spiral and then they just want to stop. So he didn't want that. She loved it. She loved it growing up. So I started to work with her and I went to a few shows and I tried to learn everything I possibly could. I talked to trainers. I talked to I read everything. I went to clinics. I remember the first clinic I went to in Ottawa was George Morris Clinic. And I don't know if that was a good one to go to because it was going sideways a lot of the time. But I did that, you know, and I talked to as many people, read things. And I even took some lessons to myself to get the feelings of, you know, what the writer feels and what. And this was this was show jumping with the writer. And I was getting to the point of being able to jump a little bit, too. So, you know, familiarizing myself with the lingo, familiarizing. familiarizing myself with the process and just learning as much as I possibly could. And then shortly after I worked with her, I started to get calls from other people because they saw the development and they saw the progress in her. So that's how I started in the sport. And then I finally started to work with a professional show jumper, probably about six months after that. You know, I kind of concluded with her and that kind of started everything in the show jumping business and eventing and dressage and reining and, you know, all the different disciplines that we currently work in.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Awesome. So I, as you know, have read your book a couple of years ago and it was it was a really big game changer for me as somebody who has struggled with confidence with my writing. One of the biggest things that stood out was the concept of writing inside out. And now now. We sort of briefly discussed this before we started recording, and I was like, oh, I just want to record exactly what you just said, so hopefully you remember it and can repeat it. But for me, it was this feeling that I always... I always felt so nervous of my outside environment. I would let other things affect me. I would let the other horses in the ring, the other riders in the ring, the people that were watching, the noise, the winds, everything like that. I would let that affect me. And then, of course, it trickles down to my horse. So can you explain this concept of riding from the inside out? Because I think it's going to benefit a lot of people that don't know it already.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Yeah, I think it's a pretty big concept. And the inside is basically you and the outside is basically everything that's outside of you. And like you said, your sort of mindset, everything in the sport was predetermined sort of by things outside of yourself. Now, there's a problem with that. You want to certainly develop the inside and develop the truth about yourself and allow yourself to ride off of that because that's the truth. The truth isn't necessarily what's coming from the outside. Those are people's opinions and what they think and all sorts of different things. Right. So but part of the problem is if you don't do a really good job on the inside, then guess what happens? Those gaps are filled by what is happening on the outside. So this is what happens with a lot of riders. That's why you sort of have to do the work on yourself and develop those truths about yourself, your own values, your own purpose. Knowing your limitations, knowing your strengths, knowing your own sort of emotional makeup and what those messages that your emotions are sending you mean. And also the voice inside of your head. Is it telling you the truth? Is it not telling you the truth? And being able to sort of regulate that and develop it and shape that. So if you do all those things, then great. Then you can ride off of that and that becomes kind of your structure and your truth. But if you don't, then guess what? Like I said, it's filled up by things from the outside, all those opinions like and a lot of times those opinions are not the truth and they create doubt in the rider. Right. And this is what probably was happening to you. So once you get in that, if we're talking about show jumping, for example, if you get in that ingate and you've developed the structure and that voice is in a good place and your confidence is in good place and you have the opportunity to ride big, then great, then you're in a good spot. But if you don't have those sorts of things developed, then guess what happens? Then all of a sudden the doubts start and the voice acts up and you hear the supposed truths that your truths that people are talking about out here, right? So that's what inside out means. So it's really important to be able to write inside out and not the opposite, which is outside in, which you were probably doing, you know, until you kind of discovered how to how to write inside out.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Exactly. And I apply it to so many concepts in my life as well. It's always inside out, inside out, inside out. I'm always repeating that to myself. What you know, I can control what goes on within me. I can't control what goes on around me. So let me let me stay in the inside.

[SPEAKER 1]
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I love it. And you know what? It's such an amazing concept for young people because if you can get that early through your writing, it applies, like you said, to everything that you do. It really shapes your own structure. So as a young person, you're doing it through your passion, which is pretty cool, right? Developing these skills, right? And once you develop those skills, then you bring them into everything you do, into work, into school, into everything, relationships even, right, which is really key too. So it makes you a more healthy sort of mentally and emotionally person. So that's why I get excited about what I do because I know if I can make an impact on the young riders now, then I'm going to have the impact later on too because they'll have the skills with them. Absolutely.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Absolutely. Where you have worked with really, really big names and you share some stories within your book of, you know, some testimonials, some feedback, some case studies, things like that of some of the riders that you've worked with, whether it was an amateur or a professional, can you share a moment that you were able to witness or experience where a rider shifted from that self-doubt to stepping into like their superhero persona?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:09:37-00:11:35]
Yeah, you know what? There's been so many, Danielle. It's really like and what's really cool is that it happens at different stages. So I might work with a rider and it might happen within four weeks or three weeks that they really start to get it and get that inside out type of experience. Riding might take longer with others, right, where they they kind of we move through the process. So what I do with them typically is a process. And depending on how long they want to work with me, we try to compact the process sometimes or we can lengthen it out and just make it more functional and more effective sometimes. The longer I have with the rider, the better. So we've had riders like I use one example in the book. We've had some riders, young riders go from off completely off the radar screen in the FBI rankings down to a, you know, a pretty low ranking starting to get on nation's cups and those sorts of things. And then we have, you know, a dressage rider who was terrified to get on the horse and ready to quit and Going to a place where, and part of what I love about my job, I can work on the achievement, but I can also work on the enjoyment, which I think sometimes is more important. Again, having the rider fall in love with the sport again. Not only achieving things, they will achieve it. If they start falling in love with the sport again and we get the right pieces in place, the achievement is just a byproduct of that. They'll start winning classes and that sort of thing. And that's what happens. I've had riders who have... been terrified to get on the horse. And, you know, maybe six to eight months later, they're winning every second class. So it's fun. It's really super fun to see. But it's really hard to define exactly like one thing because there's been so many and they happen at different times too during the process that I work with them.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Can you walk us through a little bit of your structure? You're kind of mentioning like having a plan. What does a plan look like for working with a performance coach?

[SPEAKER 1]
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Yes. So, you know, typically it's it's everything about them at the beginning. So it's kind of the self-awareness piece. We're going to talk about your values. Do you have values in the first place and what are they? Do you have equestrian values? And we might structure some equestrian values for them, too, because equestrian That's the sort of the guidance of the behavior every day, the habits every day. What are you doing every single day to achieve more and enjoy the sport more? The purpose, the emotional structure we work on, too. That voice we're talking about and creating a very customized process for them on how they regulate and manage and shape that voice, which is really important because that ultimately becomes your truth, right? What you're telling yourself about yourself. So that's super important. And we work towards kind of building those skills, all these great skills, you know, working on the confidence skills, working on self-control, working on optimism, which is a really big deal. Like it seems obvious, but being optimistic and understanding what optimism is in situations is really key. And then I sort of build them towards their own customized riding plans. So they create their own vision for where they want to go in the sport, a realistic vision. And then the day to kind of the day to day steps on how they draw themselves toward that vision. And then from there, within that, it's building skills. So we assess them at the beginning. Typically, I assess a rider at the beginning. So it's many different skills we assess them in. And then it helps them understand what their strengths are. So that's great to understand that. And I still build them even if they are strengths. But we take the ones maybe that are a little bit weak and potentially holding them back and build those skills. So it's an ongoing development process of building skills, the self-awareness, which is really key and important. You know, the self-awareness, too, comes before the confidence piece. It precedes confidence because unless you understand yourself, it's really difficult to believe in what you're doing and just overall believe in yourself. So you have to understand it first. So that's why I always put that piece first. So, you know, if you understand something, then there's a real opportunity to believe in it. So so that's basically the way the program works. And then I mentor people. I stay with them over time just to make sure that these skills are being properly developed and properly executed. And then, you know, it's it's basically just a process of building the habits, too, and making sure that the habits are in place and the habits are sticking to.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:14:43-00:14:60]
Absolutely. I love that. You mentioned like looking at the vision and then breaking it down in the day to day. Sometimes I feel like that's that's where it's easy to get lost. You might have that one big goal, but then you don't break it down into the little tiny steps that are going to get you there.

[SPEAKER 1]
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A hundred percent. Yeah. And I feel that's where people get lost, too, when they set goals. So they have a goal. But I always say to people, you know, I'll say to a writer if I'm talking to a young writer in Wellington or something like that, like, what is what is the vision this year? What is the goal? And they'll tell me the goal. And then I'll say, OK, but how are you going to do it? How are you doing it every day? How are you holding yourself accountable every day to make sure that that goal happens? Because it's not enough to just make a list of goals. You have to be very detailed on exactly how you're going to move yourself towards that. And typically, I ask them to develop like my clients. I ask them to make a big vision. And we outline that process in Ride Big about how to do that, how to outline the vision, and then how to, and I'm not going to say drag yourself, but move yourself towards the vision. How are you going to do that every single day, like with your horse, with your own skills, with your horse's skills? with your schedule with all sorts of different things with everything that you're doing with your physicality with your working out uh you know technically how are you going to get a fractionally better so it's all those sort of performance pieces that go into the model and then you're moving yourself towards that vision i want to be the best writer in the world okay great everyone does right every fei writer wants to be the best writer in the world but What is the exact way for you to develop yourself and move towards that vision? So you're 100% right that those small details, the little pieces, the day-to-day pieces are the important pieces to get there.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Yes. One thing that we hear a lot in sports in general, so not necessarily just equestrian sports, but just the overall sports world, is there's so much focus on the physicality of it. You have to be an athlete, you have to be physically fit, you have to have stamina, endurance, etc., etc., etc., all of the things. And there's not as much focus on like the mental and emotional muscles. And we kind of talked about this a little bit before recording that you said they're like the invisible ones. So therefore, people forget about them or they don't focus on them. Can you talk a little bit about the importance of building those mental and emotional muscles, you know, as much as or if not more than building the physical muscles?

[SPEAKER 1]
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Yeah, I think in a performance model, you sort of had, I kind of, there's a bunch of areas, but I narrow it down to four key ones. So the first one is technical, and everyone kind of knows what that is, right? The seat, the hands, the legs. Working on all these things as part of your horsemanship and being a better rider. And then there's the physical part, which a lot of people are now getting more into. It never used to be that way in equestrian sport, but now you see the Palladio Studios and the kickboxing studios popping up in Wellington. where all the riders are understanding that strong legs, a really solid core, and just better overall fitness is key to riding better, right, and having a better seat. And then there's the strategic part. Do you understand the sport? So when you go in the ring, do you understand what's going to help you ride the best you possibly can? So that's kind of the strategy of, you know, your specific discipline. Then, like you said, kind of the mysterious one, the one that's easy to forget, and it's becoming a big deal to work on it in all the sports. Now, I find that equestrian is a bit slow in adopting it because I think a couple of reasons. First of all, the training is focused on the horse often, and it's not focused on the rider. So that's kind of forgotten a little bit. And it's a pretty traditional sport, too. So there's kind of some late adoption, I think, on adopting the idea of building these These mind skills, these mental skills, these emotional skills that you need that really do support the other three. Are they more important? I would say they're all important. If you have the four I talked about, you'd give each one of them 25%, but you can't leave out 25% of 100% model because that's a massive gap. So I think it's really important that people do the work and build the structure and build that mental and emotional piece because it leads to sustainability in the sport where you have these fantastic skills to address challenges that you have, to enjoy the sport, to understand how to enjoy the sport, how to achieve more in the sport. So I think it's really key. But like you said, Danielle, because people can't see them, they're easy to forget. You can't see thinking. You can't really see emotions when they're inside of you. You can't see that voice that's talking in your head. So, but you can see, you know, sitting in the saddle, you can see the leg, you can see the hands, you can see the seat, you can see all these different things. You can work the muscles and see the growth in the muscles too or see yourself get stronger. But I think it's really important that equestrians, if they don't think about it, that they start thinking about the mental and the emotional piece as a complementary piece to the others. Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Many of our guests in many of our past episodes, we've spoken a lot about things like the nervous system in the horse, the horse rider relationship and how our energy affects their energy and vice versa and all of those different things. And And it just makes sense, right? Like horses can feel our heartbeats from seven feet away. Horses are prey animals. Horses are flight animals. Like they're all of these different things. And suddenly us being on top of them, what better of an energy exchange than physically being on them? You know, if we aren't at our best self, then it's only going to translate through to them. Yeah. To me, it just makes sense. And I really hope that those listening are seeing sort of those puzzle pieces put together as well.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:21:45-00:23:59]
You know, I think too, Danielle, one of the sort of the misnomers to me is that the horse is supposed to give the rider confidence. But in my opinion, it should be the other way around. Yeah. Where the rider is giving the horse confidence. So what does that mean? That means that you have to be confident in order to give the horse confidence. You can't fake it with a horse. The horse knows, right? Like you said, they feel everything. They're emotionally connected to you. So I know, you know, in writing the book, I did a lot of interviewing and visiting with Michael Young, who I really respect as a horse person. You know, people who are eventers, some people who are showjumpers don't know who he is, but if or dressage, but all eventers know who he is. And I've seen all the riders now in showjumping, in dressage. I've seen them all like at all the big shows and everything. And in my opinion, I think Michael Young might be at the top of the list as a horse person and as an elite athlete in horseback. in the sport of equestrian. And a couple of things that he told me, he told me exactly what I was just talking about. He said, it's your job, two things, it's your job to give the horse confidence, give that horse confidence in the in-gate. And the second thing is, he always says, it's my job to take pressure off my horse. I take all the pressure off my horse. So those two things, besides like a hundred other things, a hundred other great things he talked about and said to me, those two things I think are important. And I think that's why, you know, in the horse rider relationship, the rider has to be particularly good. Because you're passing on a lot of things to that horse and you're emotionally connected to that horse. So the horse knows if there's doubt. They can feel it in your hands probably, right, if there is doubt. And all these different things that the horse can feel. So it's your job to be great or be really good so you can give great things to the horse.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Okay. I love that. And I love the comment about taking the pressure off the horse.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Me too. I love that.

[SPEAKER 2]
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You mentioned a few minutes ago about the fact that self-awareness precedes confidence. And I'd love to kind of go through a few practical application things for our listeners. So first one is, can you walk us through an exercise that you might use with a rider to encourage self-awareness?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:24:31-00:26:41]
Yeah, I think we've talked about a couple of them, maybe the building of the values, understanding why you ride. Very simply, why are you riding? I think a person has to know that that's really important because if you can write off your purpose, when things get difficult and challenging, if you simplify things and go back and understand exactly why you're riding. And typically that's always because they love the animal. They love being around the barn. They love the sport. They love maybe the incremental improvement and getting better, you know, in their equestrian life. So, um, That's important. The emotional component, I think, is important. Understanding what your emotions are telling you. Emotions are essentially messages. So what are they telling you and how are you going to use that and how are you going to regulate challenging emotions to performance? And then, you know, the self-awareness, too, is also that sort of that ongoing narrative that you have in your head with yourself. Right. And being able to sort of regulate that and manage that and shape it to where it's supporting you. Like, it's amazing with a lot of the young writers, that narrative is not supporting them. It's filled with doubt. Right. It may be you're adopting some truths from the outside or not so truths from the outside, and that becomes part of your narrative. So you have to get that narrative right. Understanding what you're really good at, your strengths, so you can angle yourself towards that. What are you maybe not so good at so you can maybe put a little plan in place to chip away and make those a bit stronger, make those things a little bit stronger. So with respect to self-awareness, there's a lot of pieces to it, a lot of structure to it. And you want to sort of understand and build out those pieces as best you possibly can, because ultimately those are the pieces that you ride on. So that's that's key. And it relates directly to your confidence.

[SPEAKER 2]
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I love that. And I love that's where you start the idea of, you know, the values and those sorts of things.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Yeah, the person, right? You start with the individual and build those pieces out. And that just, once you build those things out, there's a lot of potential for growth.

[SPEAKER 2]
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The next one is the difference between riding big, which is being present, and riding small, which is dwelling in past mistakes or future fears. So how can riders practice staying in or returning to, if they've kind of verged away from it, returning to the present while in the saddle?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:27:22-00:30:39]
Okay, so riding in the moment is big, obviously, right? So if you think about it, fear is created or emerges on either side of the moment. So if you go backwards, typically you're focusing on things that may have happened that aren't so positive. It could be a fall. It could be your performance that wasn't great. And that creates some anxiety inside of you. Then the other big part of fear, probably the. The biggest part is moving forward and projecting out what might happen. And often those things are things that aren't great for you, you know, as a rider. What if this happens? What if that happens? What if I fall? What if I don't do well? What if those people that are all the people watching me, I don't do well and they don't think I'm a good rider, they laugh at me, whatever it is, right? So, by the way, one of the fears, you know, I have to work with at at length with people, with riders, with athletes in general, is the fear of other people's opinions. It's huge. That is a major fear. So thinking about those things. So now getting back to your question, we want to get ourselves in the moment. We want to ground ourselves in the moment. And there's a couple of really simple things that you can do. The first of all, the first thing, the great thing in equestrian sport is the horse is always in the moment. The horse isn't thinking about what's going on behind or what's going on ahead. The horse is in the moment. So if you're with the horse, stride for stride, step for step, you will be in the moment. So that's one kind of cool thing I think in equestrian sport is that the animal is in the moment. So you need to get with the animal and go step for step. Like you get in the ring, if it's show jumping, for example, my objective today is just to be step for step with the horse or stride for stride with the horse. So that's one thing. So you're connecting with the partner, the teammate, the animal on that level. The other thing is to, and this is always talked about a lot, but there's a reason for it, is your own breath. is immediate. It's one of the most immediate portable things that you have in life. Every breath you take is happening in the moment. So if you can draw yourself back to your own breathing and your own breath, you can take yourself away from maybe thinking ahead or thinking behind and pull it back right into the present moment. And wherever you go, if you go to Europe to ride, if you go to Nova Scotia to ride, if you go to California to ride or Florida to ride, your breath is always with you. It's super portable. So that's one thing I really like. It's like the beginning of a mindfulness practice, which often we work on with athletes. But I love the fact that the breath is so portable. And if you can think about bringing your mind back to that immediate breath that you're on, then you will be in the moment, which I think is really important.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:30:43-00:31:01]
Visualization. So we spoke about vision and now we're going to look at visualization. So maybe it's the idea of holding that vision in your mind's eye. But what is like an example of a visualization technique, whether it's before somebody goes into a round or before they drive to the burn or something like that?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:31:02-00:34:14]
Yeah, so there's different types of, and we call it imagery too. And the reason we call it imagery, because imagery takes into consideration all the senses. It's not just the looking or the visualizing. It's the feel. It's the taste. It's what you hear. It's everything. So you're actually putting yourself into the moment, right? So let's take, for example, use a show jumping example. It's an easy one. So you want to try to, if you're using imagery well, and there's different, and I outlined it in the book too, in the Ride Big book, the different types. The one I like the best is actually putting yourself in the saddle, feeling what the horse feels like, feeling what the saddle feels like, feeling what the reins feel like in your hands. hearing what's going on around you. What do you hear? You hear the, you know, the announcer or you hear the people, the coach, you hear all sorts of different things. What are you feeling? What are the feelings? And then you actually are in the saddle. You feel like you're in the saddle and you put yourself through the ride. How do you want to do it? How do you want to go to the first fence? How do you want to roll back? How do you want to execute your bended lines? How do you want to execute the going through the double or the triple or whatever it is? So you're actually in the saddle and you're feeling yourself doing the ride. And I'm telling you, the research on this is amazing in that it's about... They're saying it's 70% as effective as actually doing it if you do it really well. So what are the benefits of it? Well, it takes less time, takes a little less time for the preparation and all that sort of thing. It's taking the jumps out of the horse, certainly, right? So if you're injured or you're in an off season or something like that, you can do a lot of this. You can take yourself through a variety of rides and different courses at different shows, whatever you want to do, right? So I think it's really a really cool exercise for any rider before they ride. Let's say they go to the next show. Well, half an hour or whatever, you learn your course, and then you put yourself in the saddle and take yourself through the course, feeling exactly like you think it would feel riding the course. And you can ride it whatever way you want. You ride it, you know... A number of different ways, but obviously you want to probably try to ride it exactly the way you want to execute the course, right, if it goes flawlessly. So I think it's a really excellent tool to have, this imagery, and you're feeling things. You're sensing the, you know, what it feels like in the saddle. You're hearing everything. The senses all come back to you. So I think it's a great tool for an equestrian. It's right there for you.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:34:16-00:34:40]
The thing I find interesting about that is I'm sure you've watched some of the next the Netflix docuseries on the different sports. So there's like the quarterback one, the receiver, there's the F1, there's, you know, the golf, all of those different ones. And my husband and I, we love watching those. I just I find it so interesting. And I find that I want to cheer on the athletes more when I it feels like I know them a little bit more.

[SPEAKER 1]
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I know the F1 one was incredible. Yes. So good.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Yes. And the interesting thing is that visualization is something almost every single athlete, no matter what sport they're playing, no matter what position in the sport that they're playing, they all seem to mention is this idea of I'm going to visualize my touchdown. I'm going to visualize winning the race. I'm going to visualize, you know, getting the trophy, whatever it may be. And the neat thing about blending that in with being an equestrian is that we do rely so much on our feel. How does the horse feel in my hands? How does the horse feel under my seat? How does the horse feel when I'm leading it? How does the horse's energy feel when I'm walking up to it? All of it is this idea of feel. And the more that we develop it in real time with the horse on the ground or in the saddle, and the more that we develop it when we're just sitting and have our eyes closed and doing a visualization, I feel like the more that they then coincide with one another. We visualize it so we actually can start to feel it when we're in real time and vice versa. It's kind of a cool thing that the horse gives us. And maybe I'm going off on a little bit of a tangent here, but I just I think that this idea of feel and visualizing has this beautiful marriage together with horses.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:36:03-00:37:18]
Yeah, I think it's an important thing you just said, because I think it's a tool that an equestrian can use. I think that's your bottom line. Right. And maybe it's not used quite enough. But this gets back to my original comment of of. The whole idea of working on these skills is a bit behind in equestrian sport. And I think that if the skills are used properly, they can really benefit the rider. And there's many tools, there's many skills to learn from. But this is one that you can take advantage of. And I spent some time on it in the book, too, just outlining, okay, what does this mean for an equestrian? How do you do it? And what is an example of it, too, a potential example of it? So... So I think there's some guide there for people too. But yeah, it's definitely something people should consider. I have had athletes who don't like doing it. They don't want to do it, which is fine. But I've had other athletes that have been highly successful doing it. And they feel like it's really made a difference in their sporting life.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:37:20-00:38:02]
The next question I want to ask is in relation to pressure. So... When you think of riding at a show, a lot of times, whether you're in dressage or you're in show jumping or whatever the discipline may be, reining, anything like that, you're the only one in the ring. All eyes are on you. And that can feel like an immense amount of pressure. The judge is watching me. My friends are watching me. These strangers are watching me. My coach is watching me, making sure that I'm doing what they told me to do. You know, all of these different things. It can feel like a lot of pressure. And can you talk to us a little bit about how to reframe the idea of pressure in riding?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:38:03-00:42:31]
So, you know what, this comes back a little bit to while you were saying that I'm thinking, OK, yes, let's go back to the inside out and outside in, because you're talking about this singular rider going into the ring and all these things around them. So you've got the rider, which is the inside part. Then you've got all this outside stuff. around the perimeter, right? That potentially can impact what's going on in the ring. There's good and bad pressure. Like pressure is not a bad thing. Pressure, I think you need it to really excel in sport, to focus yourself. I know, you know, talking to McLean Ward, you know, writing the right big book, that was his big thing is that, He used to get eaten up by pressure, but now he's learned to sort of coexist with it. He understands it. He understands the difference between good and bad pressure, and he really feels like it narrows his focus, especially in the big events like the Olympics and the Nations Cups and all these different... He rides in a lot of big events, obviously, right? So you need that... sharp acuity that mental focus to separate yourself often from all these other amazing horses and riders so but you know if you use pressure properly it really does give meaning to your riding is there pressure that's the question often people ask me does pressure exist of course it exists because you've gone from riding in the barn by yourself with nobody around to to a show ring that's now testing your skills but there's demands there's time there's a time limit so there's now there's an urgency right there's a bit of an urgency it's not the same as just kind of flatting in the barn in the wintertime they they're asking you to do something and then they're giving you something at the end if you do it well which is a ribbon or whatever it is so Like I said, there's two types. In my opinion, there's two types of pressure from working with athletes for quite a long time. It's the good and the bad pressure. And you can heap bad pressure on yourself by a lot of the things I've already mentioned, talked about, people's opinions, all the nonsense from the outside, all the things you can't control. Those things can add bad pressure. But if you have a really great optimistic attitude about pressure that there's a real opportunity here for me, right? This is a massive opportunity. And, you know, it comes down to the old saying and BZ Madden said this to me when I interviewed her for the book is that she always found that pressure was a privilege. She, she, if she got into a position that there was some pressure, she knew she was in a good situation because she could express herself and, and, uh, and kind of showcase her skills and test her skills too, which is what she really liked. So essentially the show ring, that's all it is. It's a test of how your training is going. Nothing more, nothing less. That's exactly what it is, and that's the way a rider has to look at it. Okay, we've trained, we've trained, we've trained, we've trained in a freezing cold barn all winter, which, was it fun? Yeah, it was fun, but I'd rather be in the summer months in the show ring, right? So that's where kind of the fun should be. And the training of that winter time, effort, everything that you do, you're training it all or you're testing it all in the show ring in the summer months. And so there's opportunity there to test it. And then if it's not quite right, you go back into the barn later and, you know. tweak it and decide what you need to do to become a better rider and then kind of move forward from there you know what too i'll tell you what i'll do too um danielle is we we have uh we just created what's called the pressure guide it's a really simple outline of pressure good and bad pressure and what equestrians could potentially do so we'll send it to people if they want it OK, like people who are listening, I can send it to you or people can connect with us, whatever you'd like to do. But if you if people would like to have that, it'll give them another perspective to of pressure.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:42:32-00:42:33]
Absolutely. You can put a link in the show notes.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:42:34-00:43:04]
Yeah. Yeah. And then people can just go and grab it. Right. I'll send it to you and people can go and grab it or however we decide people will get it. They can at least have maybe another little bit more education around pressure because I'm glad you brought it up. It's an important subject because a lot of people, they don't know if it really exists or who puts it on you. Is it you or is it other people? And So, it's an important, I think, from a performance perspective in equestrian sport, it's important to understand it.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:43:06-00:43:20]
And I love the shift and like the reframe that you've given us. The idea that pressure is a privilege and, you know, pressure is we're able to go in and really use it is such a reframe. And I love that.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:43:21-00:43:29]
Yeah, I think so. I think it should be a positive thing for people. You can create negativity around it, certainly, but it should be positive.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:43:29-00:43:52]
Mm-hmm. A few more questions, John. So one thing is, of course, your book being named Ride Big. So I'd love to look at some red flags so that people can notice if they're riding small. So what is what are some signs that somebody may be riding small? And then are there any ways that they could course correct that in real time?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:43:53-00:47:10]
Yeah, I would say, well, we talked about when not in the moment. So if you feel like yourself thinking ahead or thinking back, I think you need to be in the moment. And we talked a little bit about the course correction for that, maybe how to get yourself in the moment. In equestrian sport, there's a lot of overthinking. So when you get in the let's say, well, you show jumping again as the example, when you get in the in gate, you should have a maximum of one thought in your head, not 10. So 10 is confusing. 10 confuses the horse. The horse is not going to know which way to go or up or down or where to go if you have too much going on. So you need one thought. And sometimes it's hard, too, with coaches because coaches, you know, just before you ride sometimes put a lot of thoughts in the head about different pieces of the course and that sort of thing. But I highly recommend that. That riders try to ride. Everything, as you know, happens so fast in equestrian sport. I mean, you're in and out of the ring. You don't even know what happened, right? You're in for a minute and then you're out. So it has to be instinct and you have to ride instinct. you know, with the subconscious part of the brain, which is the really trained part of the brain and the super lightning quick part of the brain. If you're riding with the front of your brain, which is the thinking brain, you're not going to make it because it's too slow and you don't want to fill it up with all sorts of thoughts that junk the ride up. So let's say one thought would be, okay, today we've done the training. We know what we want to work on. So maybe one thing. And then a really good thought for a lot of riders is, okay, when the bell rings, let's try to get a very smooth, rhythmical canter to the first fence. Because if we get the tempo and the rhythm right, often a lot of things are going to go right in the ride. So that's a simple one. And that simplifies things. So we want to kind of take, you know, the thinking, sort of the thinking piece out of it. And then I think the other thing maybe, Danielle, which would be a good one, is the idea of the self-doubt. And there's a lot of self-doubt in writing. And I think just a really strong statement to yourself, like when you're in the ingate or when you're in the warm-up ring, wherever it is, and the three words, I'm good enough, I am good or four words. I am good enough. I am good enough. Cause often writers don't think they're good enough. They don't think they have what it takes maybe, but they do. So you have to tell yourself that you're good enough and that can take away some of the self doubt that doesn't help you in the ring either. So I think those things are all kind of reflections of writing small self doubt, not in the moment and, And the overthinking piece, which I think is those are the three things. There's probably 10 things that I kind of highlight in the book about writing small, but those three, I think, are good ones.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:47:11-00:47:15]
Yeah, I absolutely agree. I think those are great ones.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:47:16-00:47:60]
As so many of us do exactly that the self doubt the overthinking, not being I am good enough. I am good enough. Those are very powerful words. And those are very, those are important words that when I was in Wellington this year, I did this video from one of the five stars kind of for everybody. I was working with a couple of the riders in the five star. And so I did a video and the ingate, the riders were all going into the ingate, the pros were all going into the ingate. So I wanted the ingate clear and that that's the place. And so when you get in that in gate, those words to yourself are important. I am good enough.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:48:01-00:48:11]
I love that. John, do you have any other like mental, emotional tools that you'd recommend every equestrian have in their toolbox? Anything that you haven't mentioned today?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:48:14-00:50:21]
We've talked about the big ones, I think, Danielle. I think the clear vision, certainly, and then the supporting pieces to that. What are you going to do every day to really bring that vision to life? I think every rider, too, does need their own process to regulate emotions. So if emotions start challenging emotions, start bubbling up, how do you address them? How do you deal with them? How do you understand them so that they don't continue? Because often what we see, too, is if emotions get too hot, then they start lingering. They start... hijacking you, right? It's like they talk a lot about that, the amygdala hijack. So you don't want to get yourself in that position because then you can literally ruin your entire day or a section of time. So you want to be able to feel the emotion. Perfect. I love it. Feel it. Get it out and then move on. Move forward, which I think is really important for a performer, for an athlete. And then probably another good one that we've already talked about is develop a value system, an equestrian value system for yourself. What do you believe in and what's going to regulate your behavior every day? So that decision making is easy. When you have no values, it's impossible to make good, clear, consistent decisions because you don't know what you believe in. So it's really key. We do this with the executives to the CEOs. They have to have a value system because they're making a million decisions. And if you don't know what you believe in, then the decision making is all over the place. So you have to believe in something and that regulates your decision making and that regulates your kind of behavior and habits in the sport. So I really recommend that for young equestrians. That's so key because that really stabilizes things.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:50:22-00:50:30]
I love that. John, before we wrap up, we have four rapid-fire questions that we ask all of our podcast guests.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:50:30-00:50:31]
Oh, uh-oh. Oh, boy.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:50:31-00:50:36]
Whatever comes to mind. The first one is, do you have a motto or favorite saying?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:50:39-00:50:40]
Let's go with ride big.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:50:40-00:50:41]
Yeah, perfect.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:50:42-00:50:44]
Ride big for equestrian sport.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:50:44-00:50:50]
That's the perfect one. Absolutely. The second, who has been the most influential person in your equestrian journey?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:50:51-00:50:57]
You know what? That's a hard one because so many people have influenced me. I started basically from scratch.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:50:58-00:51:36]
So, so many trainers, writers, clients have really helped me. me kind of get to where i am in the sport and without all of them probably i never would have got there so i don't think there's anybody really super specific but there's so many great trainers out there that were so generous to talk to me and to help and all of those things so i would say it's really hard there's been a lot of people who have who have been helpful if you could give equestrians one piece of advice more than what you've already given what would it be I

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:51:40-00:52:45]
would say, well, we've talked about, I think, most of the things, but I would talk about go back to the beginning and work on yourself and develop yourself. Like we say the same thing in corporate, right? If you can't lead yourself, you can't lead others, right? So you you need to work on yourself a little bit and you have that opportunity. You'll have the tools, you'll have everything you want to do, but you need to work on yourself first in order to kind of move forward. And so. Really focus on trying to give your horse confidence versus waiting for the other way around to happen, because I think a lot of riders feel like, OK, my horse is going to give me confidence because we know that typically the riders make the mistakes in riding. The horses don't make the mistakes typically. Right. So. So the rider's kind of waiting for the horse to give them something. But I think it's really important that they bring it and they develop themselves and be better for the partner.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:52:47-00:52:51]
And the last one, please complete the sentence. For me, horses are.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:52:53-00:52:55]
That's an easy one. Teachers.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:52:56-00:52:56]
Yes.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:52:58-00:53:54]
Yeah, absolutely. The horse, you can learn a lot from a horse. You can really, and just equestrian sport in general, the amount of lessons that you get and the amount of, the horses are such giving animals, right? They're basically giving themselves and their lives to, for people's enjoyment and to, you in in you know for for the riders so I would say that they're teachers they really are I think I love horses that's another reason why I got into it I was around horses a lot my dad owned race horses so I was around the barn a lot and I loved hanging out with the horses it was so fun just I would do anything the stalls whatever just gave me a job so uh so that was fun As I mentioned in the beginning, I have read your book.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:53:54-00:54:23]
I recommend your book. Not only was it practical and actionable, it was also enjoyable to read. And so for everybody listening, we're going to put links in the show notes for where you can purchase John's book, Ride Big. Also the links to his website as well, where you can learn more if you want to work with them, all of the things. Is there anything else you'd like to share or give to our listeners for a place that they can connect with you or find out more?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:54:24-00:55:13]
I don't think so. I think you'll have everything in the show notes. So we'll also give people that pressure guide, too, if they want the pressure guide. And that's a good one. Even if you can take one thing away from it, I think it's important. But, you know, just to kind of wrap up, I think it is important that people start circling a bit and focusing on trying to develop these mental and emotional skills because it will bring more enrichment, I think. more achievement, certainly, and we're always looking for the joy in the sport, too. That's key, right? It's your passion. It's what you do in your spare time, so you should enjoy it. So I think having these skills we're talking about and other skills that we work with people on, they can really enjoy the sport more and extract the joy from it, which is the big part.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:55:13-00:55:34]
Mm-hmm. I've enjoyed this conversation so much. I have a feeling our listeners are going to get a lot from it. And I just have to say this conversation came at a very timely time for me. So I really, really appreciate all of your wisdom and knowledge that you've been willing to share with us. So thank you so much, John.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:55:35-00:55:49]
Yeah, thank you, Danielle. I see, too. You know, before we came in, I looked at your sort of some of your guests and you've got a lot of fascinating people here. coming on the podcast. So people should pay attention to those podcasts too. They look really great.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:55:50-00:56:26]
Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Equestrian Connection podcast by WeHorse. If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a rating and review, as well as share us on social media. You can find us on Instagram at WeHorse underscore USA and check out our free seven-day trial on WeHorse.com where you can access over 175 courses with top trainers from around the world in a variety of topics and disciplines. Until next time, be kind to yourself, your horses, and others.

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