#37 Overcoming fears and limiting beliefs with Sarah Louise Lilley

[SPEAKER 2]On this episode, we’re talking with Sarah Louise Lilley, a clinical EFT practitioner and EFTU mentor who specializes in helping equestrians overcome their fears.

[SPEAKER 1]And, you know, even that is such an easy entry point to EFT, right? Even if you don’t know the basic recipe and you don’t know what to say or you don’t even know why you’re stressed out, you just feel some tension in your body. You feel yourself in your head, as you said. Just tapping the points alone for a couple of minutes is going to Send that calming signal to your brain. It’s going to tell your body it’s safe. It’s telling your body it’s safe to relax, and you will get those benefits at the point.It’s just from doing that alone.

[SPEAKER 2]Welcome to the Equestrian Connection podcast from WeHorse. My name is Danielle Crowell, and I’m your host. Sarah uses EFT to help people overcome fears, blocks, and phobias, and she specializes in helping equestrians find confidence after traumatic falls. EFT is an evidence-based, trauma- and polyvagal-informed stress reduction technique which combines modern Western psychology and the ancient Eastern art of acupressure. And it’s an easy tool anyone can use to emotionally regulate and show up with integrity in all areas of their life, including their time at the barn. In this episode, we discuss rebuilding confidence after traumatic events such as falls, as well as how EFT can support riding goals by releasing shame, limiting beliefs, procrastination, and so much more. This is an actionable episode that every equestrian can benefit from. So without further ado, let’s get started. Sarah, welcome to the WeHorse podcast. We are so excited to have you here today and to chat about this super important topic.

[SPEAKER 1]Thank you so much.I’m really excited to be here.

[SPEAKER 2]What is EFT and how did you get started with EFT?

[SPEAKER 1]Great question.So EFT stands for emotional freedom technique.At its simplest, it’s a stress reduction technique. It combines elements of traditional talk therapy, cognitive therapy, exposure therapy with elements of the ancient art of active pressure.So it combines that modern Western psychology with this ancient Eastern art. It’s also called tapping, because as you’re focusing on something stressful or traumatic, you’re actually tapping on these acupressure points on your face and torso.And what the science shows us is that as you’re focusing on this, you know, trauma, this negative experience, you’re sending calming signals to the brain. You’re actually lowering your cortisol.You’re moving your body from being in fight or flight into that parasympathetic nervous system.And we’re actually rewiring the brain.So then you can kind of choose how you want to show up or relate to this triggering event, as opposed to coming from this triggered or habitual or kind of reactive place. And it can be used in everything from everyday stress to severe trauma, have incredible results with PTSD in the veteran community.So everything from severe phobias to just your everyday stresses that we all kind of encounter.So that’s kind of the basics of EFT.And I first heard about it through Gabby Bernstein, who’s a self-development writer. a decade plus ago.She had a book about it.She had a book and in it she mentioned it and I watched some videos that she’d done and was kind of aware of it and was doing it a little bit myself.And I got into it because I first heard about it through Gabby Bernstein.She’s a New York-based self-development writer over a decade, 15 years ago maybe.And I was using it very, very loosely kind of in my own life. And then I have a very traditional kind of story where there was a big trauma in my life.I used this modality so successfully on myself or other people used on me.I work with a practitioner that I then felt called to kind of serve others in that same way, which is a very common story, I think, in kind of healing modalities.And so. I went through a very traumatic event in my own life.It was Christmas of 2018.And my husband, who was a super healthy young guy, had a massive stroke in front of my son and I on Christmas morning.And he survived that, but came home three weeks later with severe aphasia, which is loss of speech and cognition without loss of intelligence.So obviously, a massive trauma for our family.And EFT was so instrumental in dealing with the PTSD of that day. the massive transition that our life and navigating that new normal took, as well as even up until like a year and a half later, when I thought I had healed a lot of that, the trauma still kind of popped up in certain areas of my life, including my writing, which I didn’t even understand at first was related to that trauma.And so it was just such a powerful tool for me that then I felt, as I said, kind of called to help others with it.

[SPEAKER 2]I think it’s interesting that you say about how like it popped back up in your writing, which is, you know, something that is really completely unrelated, but at the same time, not, you know, how, like, we have these reactions in our bodies that can come from something we hear, something we smell, something like anything that we experience that can bring it back for us.So that’s really interesting.And now, when you had mentioned the points on the body, can you just briefly go over what the points are and like, why?So why choose, like, why do you have to do it in a certain area of your face or things like that?Like, what is the purpose behind that?

[SPEAKER 1]So the points that acupressure points are the same point to use an acupuncture, so they’ve been around sort of 5000 years.And, you know, the points we use are kind of the nine basic points and what we call the basic recipe in EFT, which cover the 12 main meridians in your body. And so, you know, EFT is just kind of systematized what actually we kind of naturally do in our day to day life.Like if you think about when you’re stressed, and you see people, it’s like this, you know, they’re standing, you know, they’re sitting there with their fingers right about their nose, they’re rubbing their eyes or their temples, they’re putting their head in their hands, they’re like, rubbing their wrists, right?Naturally, we have this ability to self-soothe.And so EFT really kind of systematized that self-soothing process.And the meridian points themselves are just kind of the highest, these points of highest conductivity in our body. right?If you want to use, it’s the, the prima vascular system is kind of the more of the medical term for the meridian system.And so we’re tapping in these points of high conductivity, using collagen as a transmitter, if you will, send that calming signal to your brain. And so studies show that if you tap, it’s why I’m very specific about you have to tap on the point, because if you tap kind of near the point, you’re not getting the same results.You’re not lowering your cortisol in the same way, right?I see a lot of YouTube videos where people are tapping kind of vaguely near the point, but not really on the point.And you’re not gonna hurt yourself, but you’re not gonna get that stress reduction.You’re not gonna get that lowering of cortisol as if you’re actually on the point, for example.

[SPEAKER 2]That’s interesting.I’ve done like a little bit of tapping just like having to follow along in the video like you had said and I wasn’t completely sure of the specific area.I just kind of was mirroring what I’d seen.But I found even like even if I wasn’t hitting the right area, I even found that like just that physical thing of having to focus on tapping and a certain spot and saying like it just it made me so present.I I’m somebody that I very much can live in my head.And so if I’m trying to meditate or something like that, I’m always it’s always a practice of okay, stop thinking that stop thinking that stop thinking that but what I found with EFT that it was It’s very much like I didn’t have the space to be thinking about something else, which really, really helped bring me into the present.

[SPEAKER 1]But that’s interesting.I mean, you’re literally turning off your stress response, right?You’re literally relaxing your body in that way.So your brain does calm down.It does calm down those racing thoughts. And certainly, if you meditate, doing just like one round of EFT before you meditate really helps you like smoothly sink into that meditation.And if you just tap the points, and you know, even that is such an easy entry point to EFT, right?Even if you don’t know the basic recipe, and you don’t know what to say, or you don’t even know why you’re stressed out, you just feel some tension in your body, you feel yourself in your head, as you said, just tapping the points alone for a couple of minutes is gonna Send that calming signal to your brain.It’s going to tell your body it’s safe.It’s telling your body it’s safe to relax and you will get those benefits at the point.It’s just from doing that alone.

[SPEAKER 2]Do you wish you could have a better partnership with your horse but aren’t sure where to start? Do you want to advance your riding or horsemanship but don’t have access to the ideal resources in your area?Does the idea of learning about horse training whenever and wherever and at a price that won’t break your horse bank sound appealing to you? Check out WeHorse.com to access over 175 online courses with top trainers from around the world.We have courses on everything from dressage to groundwork to show jumping to bodywork.And as a member, you get access to everything in our WeHorse library to watch whenever you want. Oh, and we also have an app, which means you can download a course or video to watch without Wi-Fi, which is perfect for those days at the bar and when you want a quick dose of training inspiration before your ride.So what are you waiting for?Go to WeHorse.com and check out our free seven day trial to access our WeHorse library and see if it’s a good fit for you.We can’t wait to see you in there.And now back to the episode. So why equestrians?What made it so that you thought, okay, I want to focus with horse riders and I know that you do a lot of specialization in people that have had traumatic falls.What brought it so that you wanted to have that as a focus?

[SPEAKER 1]Well, I think I was, I was really my first client in that area because I had that experience.I had, it was about a year and a half after my husband’s stroke.I just started riding again.And I didn’t even have a fall.I didn’t realize at the time, but I had like a benign tumor in my little finger.So my finger, apparently according to my surgeon was like hanging on by a thread.I didn’t realize that I went over a jump. I didn’t close my fingers, and my finger just snapped.I heard it snap.It didn’t hurt.I just kind of heard it snap and was like, oh, I think I just broke my finger.I got it fixed.I was writing a few weeks later.But it wasn’t a big deal.It didn’t hurt.I didn’t come off.It wasn’t scary.It was fine.It was not a big thing. And I came back and I had this anxiety, and it was like this low level anxiety writing that I couldn’t get rid of.And I didn’t understand where it came from, it made no sense to me, I felt like my body was betraying me, like what is happening, right, and none of the tools I had in my toolbox, like my mindset tools were working.And it wasn’t until I did EFT that I realized my body had made that connection.My body, I had the thought when I worked on that event of that thing, it was like, I could be opening presents with my husband and son, Christmas morning, my husband could have a stroke.I could be riding along, doing a jump, everything’s fine.You could break your finger.And it had re-triggered for me this idea of, or the thought of, anything could happen, like something that she could do any moment, right, it could happen.And my brain made that connection.And it just was such a clear example of my previous tools to prior to EFT, like just weren’t helping.And when I started like asking around in terms of like, you know, writers, it was just like, there was so much help for, you know, the kind of traditional sports psychology right of getting better performance, and maybe a little anxiety when you’re showing and that kind of thing.But in terms of dealing with trauma, it just didn’t feel like there was that many people.Now, I know there are people, but in my circle, and sort of who I was talking to, just it just that those are the people I wanted to help, because I spoke to so many people who were like, Yes, I have anxiety.And I don’t going on.And I’ve always been a confident writer, and I can’t get rid of it.And they sound so frustrated.And I just really understood that.Like I just really got the frustrations that experience the frustration.And then even later after that, after when I’m at the bar I am now, I ended up breaking my shoulder riding.And in that period when I couldn’t ride, because that was a long period, I couldn’t ride for five months. It was so clear to me, like the gift of that experience was it was so clear to me how much I loved riding, right?I’d come back to it as an adult after the trauma with my husband.I was so clear in that time about how much I missed it and how much I wanted to get back on a horse.And I just deeply resonate with people who are struggling with anxiety or feel like they can’t connect to that fun, that freedom, that passion, what they love about being around horses.Sometimes it’s just that being around horses, right?You don’t have to be riders. But I just, I just, it’s nothing better than like giving that back to people like that again, like reconnecting to that sense of oneness or connection or passion or whatever that word is for them.Because I just deeply get the heartbreak when you don’t have it or you want it and you can’t do it.

[SPEAKER 2]I feel that from you, like I just like watching you here.Um, obviously the people that are listening aren’t going to see the video, but it’s just watching you here on, on this call as you speak and, and hearing, hearing you say it, I feel like that true sense of you wanting to help people. Like I just I really feel that.So that’s that’s really nice.And now what if, what if somebody didn’t have a traumatic fall like I know for myself. Well, I probably have had traumatic falls that I just, you know, we kind of brush things off.But it’s like, I can’t really think of anything in particular.However, I have always gotten anxiety in front of people.So showing was a big trigger for me.People coming and leaning on the rails when I’m having a lesson, like all of those things was always a big trigger for me in terms of anxiety. but I can’t link it to a traumatic event.So would EFT still work for something like that, right?

[SPEAKER 1]Yeah.So what I will say is that your brain is not linking it.Your cognitive prefrontal cortex is not linking it.Your body is linking it to something.It’s just in your subconscious, and you don’t know what it is yet.And what’s so interesting is that when I work with people, we do a pretty lengthy intake form. In terms of like you know what people want to work on and one of the questions there is, you know, are there any events that you think might be related to this issue.And generally people listen to this or they say I don’t I don’t say don’t know and that’s fine too. But then when we’re in session and it’s like we’re following those feelings back and we’re asking questions like tuning into that, when was the first time you felt that way?What does that remind you of?Is that a familiar feeling, right?Scuba diving down into your timeline, when was the first time you felt that way?Did you feel it in your 20s?Did you feel it in your teens?Did you feel it, right?The body will present those related events, right?And so if there’s that tabletop of anxiety, I think of like these events of the legs that cause that tabletop.And so we go in there with EFT and we just kind of knocking down those tables, those legs.So that table starts, top starts getting wobbly.And because of the generalization effect in the brain, we work on a few of those events.You don’t have to work on all of them because then the brain is like, oh, if the time when this happened, that’s over and you’re safe.And if that happened, you’re safe there.And then we’re just gonna go ahead and say that all those events are pretty cool.And then the whole tabletop comes down.So. I would just say that yeah we we you don’t know where that comes from but your body knows and we just have to kind of tap into that body wisdom and some memory that will pop up that you’ll be like this feels clients will always say to me I mean this one memory popped up but it feels like totally unrelated like it’s not related I’m like, well, it may not be.Let’s just explain.You open to exploring it, right?It’s always the thing.And then you go back and test the presenting issue.And it’s like, we worked on this whole other event that feels completely unrelated.They haven’t thought about in decades.Or maybe they have worked on in the past even, and they think it’s totally healed.And they’re like, oh, I’ve worked on that 100 times.I’ve talked about that for years in my talk therapy.It’s fine.I’ve dealt with that. But then when we work it through the body somatically, we actually release everything and then suddenly they’re able to show up so differently.

[SPEAKER 2]The body knows.

[SPEAKER 1]The body keeps the score.

[SPEAKER 2]The body keeps the score.Exactly.I literally have that book right behind me.That’s so funny. So you also talk about confidence, and I know there’s a big difference between somebody dealing with a trauma and somebody dealing with having a limiting belief and a lack of confidence.When somebody is trying to rebuild confidence, whether they did have a traumatic fall or they don’t feel confident showing, whatever it may be, what mistakes do you see people making trying to rebuild their confidence?

[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, so I think there’s a couple of things.The first piece is the first thing I always work on with any sort of, whether it’s anxiety or you call it lack of confidence, whatever you want to call it, is the feelings around having that perceived lack of confidence. because we have this anxiety that’s showing up.And then on top of that, we just beat ourselves up.We’re like, I shouldn’t be feeling this way.And she had a way worse fall than me.She’s fine.So I shouldn’t be feeling this way.And what’s wrong with me?And it’s my fault.I can’t control my body.It must be my fault.And we just layer on this. like the shame and this beating ourselves up.And that, you know, that just cuts the ability to kind of heal right there.It just stops you.So that is the piece we have to work on first.Yeah, like that is the most important part of it.Like the healing process in the beginning is releasing all the feelings around having the issue.So that’s one piece of it.And I think then I think, I mean, I think there’s many things.I think there’s also a perceived idea that, confidence is like, I’m 100% confident and that’s what confidence is, right?As opposed to an EFT where it’s like, even though I’m feeling nervous right now, I choose to trust I’ve got this, right?Even though a part of me is feeling really nervous right now, I choose to trust in my horse and in my preparation, right?And I think it’s always so refreshing when people Even like, I’m a big fan of Emily Hamill, who’s a five-star eventer, and she was talking about, you know, Gurley or Badminton, one of the big five stars she did, and she was talking about one of those crazy jumps that, you know, she’s jumping over what feels like a football field of a ditch or some, you know, absurd thing. And she was like, oh, my God, it was I just look at that.I thought, oh, my God, that is terrifying.I don’t even want to look at it because that is terrifying.But she was like, my horse is a beast and he loves and he’s going to take care of me.And I think it’s so refreshing when people even at that level are admitting their fears because confidence isn’t a lack of fear.Confidence is And there’s a balance, right?Sometimes we listen to our body and it’s like, no, it’s too much.And it’s, it’s my body send me the signal.I’m not, I’m going to step down a level.I’m not going to compete today.And that’s, that’s a different conversation.But a lot of times it’s allowing those parts of us, right?These parts of us to all be there, right?That, yeah, even though you have a part of me that’s scared, I choose to trust my training, even though I have this part, I choose this.And so I think that’s a big conversation that people miss sometimes. And also that, you know, I mean, I get it, right?I literally had a client say this to me yesterday.She was talking about a horse spooked, and then she was feeling activated.It was our first time working together.And she was like, I just told myself, don’t be scared.There’s nothing to be scared of.There’s nothing to be scared of.There’s nothing to be scared of.But if her body’s freaking out, her body’s like, no, there’s a lot to be scared of right now.So just denying your experience is like, it’s just going to get worse, right?I think of anxiety of like, there’s a great analogy about a scout in the army. So a scout’s job is to warn the army, right?So a scout goes out into the, I don’t know, the woods and he’s like looking for danger and he comes back to the army and is like, okay, don’t go over there, you know, there’s danger there and don’t go over there also because it’s really dangerous over there.And if the army’s like, go away, go away, stop bugging us right now. The Scout just gets louder because that’s his job, right?And so he’s like, no, no, you don’t understand.You can’t go over here and you can’t go over here, right?And so that’s what happens to us if our kind of fear brain, our amygdala is triggered a little bit and we’re like, no, no, go away.Don’t talk to me.I’m ignoring you.Don’t be afraid, right?It just gets louder. Whereas if the scout comes up and says, like, there’s danger over there, there’s danger over there, and the army’s like, OK, OK, good, got it.Thank you so much.OK, there’s danger there.OK, good to know.I really appreciate your help.The scout’s like, OK, cool.I’ve done my job.I can relax.And so if there is that fear, Or, you know, what I told this client was like, if, you know, like, if that happens, like, yes, that was scary.But right here now, I’m okay.Oh, that was scary.You’re right.That was scary.But right here in this moment, I’m okay.It’s over.That was in the past.Right?Oh, wow, I could really feel my heart racing.Wow, that was scary.

[SPEAKER 2]Right.

[SPEAKER 1]But right now, in this moment, I’m okay, right?And so I think just even just, we have this fear of if we acknowledge it, it’s gonna get bigger, but especially if you’re doing any sort of somatic practice, whether you’re just tapping on one point on your collarbone, whether using breath work, if you’re using some sort of somatic tool, acknowledging it and it’s gonna allow you to breathe through it if you’re using a somatic tool or move through it, as opposed to it getting bigger, which I think is generally the fear that if you embrace it, it gets bigger.

[SPEAKER 2]Yeah, and I know that you say having a positive mindset isn’t enough, and I think that explains that beautifully.We can tell ourselves all the time, everything is fine, it’s going to be a great day, I’m going to go in, I’m going to win, I’m going to get all the ribbons, I’m going to have a great lesson.We can kind of put that out there. Um, but if it doesn’t feel that way in our body, it’s not really, we’re just talking.

[SPEAKER 1]We’re just talking.

[SPEAKER 2]Yeah.

[SPEAKER 1]Yeah.Yeah.The body’s like, it’s like, today’s going to be a great day.And your subconscious is like, F you.No, it’s not.I’ve got to do this today.I do that today.And it’s like, you’re actually just. it feels like it’s like putting a Band-Aid over an infected wound, right?Like your subconscious is just like, F you.No, it’s not.And you’re actually just programming that subconscious F you more than the mantra.Like it doesn’t do anything.It’s just going to kind of create that, yeah, that disconnection.

[SPEAKER 2]What did I hear?I think it was yesterday or the day before I was listening to a podcast and I heard somebody say, worry is a prayerful, I’m trying to remember it, but it was basically like the more that we worry about something and the more that we kind of push it aside, but it’s always in the back of our mind, we’re actually just like asking for that thing to come true. You know, almost like if we’re always thinking, oh, I’m gonna have a really great ride, but my horse was taking a couple lame steps, you know, but it’s fine.And, you know, and then the next thing you know, we’re so focused on that thing that we’re almost like bringing it to fruition.

[SPEAKER 1]Well, it’s that same idea that what you resist persists, right?So if you’re like, no, I’m not scared, it’s fine.Nope, not scared, not scared.And if you resist it, it’s like, yes, you are scared.It’s just going to get louder.And it might come back louder that day, or it might come back louder next week.It can be kind of nebulous when it comes back.But if you resist it, it’s just going to get bigger.Yeah.

[SPEAKER 2]That was a much more eloquent way of saying, what you resist persists.That summarizes it perfectly. So confidence, you’ve said that confidence isn’t the absence of self-doubt.What do you mean by that?

[SPEAKER 1]Well, that just goes back to this idea that you can still have a little feeling in your body, you can still feel a bit like freaked out and trust your training, right?Even though I’m a little bit, even though I’m feeling a little bit nervous about doing this round today, I choose to trust, I practice for this and I’m ready, right?And so to me, confidence isn’t a complete lack of self-doubt.And for some people, you know, some people, I just had a client yesterday and she was like, I just, I did a show and I’ve never felt so much freedom.I’ve never felt that complete lack of anxiety.And so for some people that’s possible. wherever you are in your journey.And there are times when it makes sense if you’re going up a level, right?If you’ve never done beginner, I’ll speak for myself.I did my first beginner novice this year.It’s a new level for me, right?I’ve never done it before.My body, my nervous system doesn’t like change.No one likes change.It’s new.The jump, the bigger.I’ve never done that before.Of course, I’m going to feel a bit nervous. right?Of course, it’s natural that I’m going to feel like, oh, I’ve never done this before.What’s this going to be like?Right?And so there are times when, you know, you’re in new situations, well, it would be for me, it’d be weird if I wasn’t nervous, right?Also matters to me, right?And we can also write physiologically, nerves, excitement, they really show up in the same way.So can we just start labeling any sort of, again, not when there’s trauma involved, but when sort of what I think of as just sort of manageable nerves, it’s like, can I just label that as, oh, this matters to me, this, I’m excited, my body’s a little activated.But can we stop labeling it even as anxiety?And can we start labeling it as, oh, there’s some, ooh, there’s some feel, there’s some little movement in my stomach right now. There’s some little, ooh, there’s some little jellyfish in my belly or whatever it is.And can we just label it as like, tune into the physical sensation and maybe just even release our need to kind of label things or put a negative spin on it, right?Because if you just focus on the physical sensation, it really could just be labeled excitement.

[SPEAKER 2]Yeah, absolutely. I was just thinking, I always, anytime I get nervous, I always have to use the bathroom.I have to pee.

[SPEAKER 1]Oh my God.

[SPEAKER 2]I’m always like, okay, I got to go again.Okay.

[SPEAKER 1]I got to go again.I’m a hundred percent the same way.And that’s because, right.You need to run from the tiger.Like your body’s expelling everything because you got to get ready to run.So that’s like your body just being like, that’s yeah.Very common.I’m like nervous stomach and have to pee all the time.A hundred percent.

[SPEAKER 2]Okay, I would like to know, so we’ve been talking a little bit about like anxiety, confidence, and then also you had mentioned about trauma.Are there different tools, so if somebody did have a trauma, again using the example of like a bad fall, or just some showering anxiety, lack of confidence.Are there different tools to use?Is there different ways of doing EFT?Is there anything that you would recommend more for one person than the other?

[SPEAKER 1]I mean, I think certainly if I would say if there’s any trauma involved, like work with a practitioner, like I wouldn’t do that yourself.

[SPEAKER 2]Right.

[SPEAKER 1]I think if you just kind of want to experiment with, you know, I had a client recently who struggled with transitions.And I relate it, because I can do that, too, of getting to the barn and being rushed.And it was like, she just wanted to learn the tools that she could kind of come into herself, into her body, before she even started interacting with her horse.So it’s like, in the car, when she gets to the barn, she’s just going to tap, kind of release the stress of the day.She had a highly stressful job, release everything. So she kind of show up to her horse and kind of that neutral, relaxed, like I’m open to connecting with you, not bringing my baggage with me.Right.And so you can learn the tool to just use in your everyday life, whether it’s in your horse life, equestrian life, in your regular, regular life.If trauma is involved, I would say that the tools are the same in terms of how I work with people. If there’s trauma involved, I would say we go more gently.And there’s certain techniques in EFT, literally called the gentle techniques, that are very trauma-informed, that are going to kind of gently reveal what we need to work on to move through it um and different technique there’s just different techniques in EFT that I would use if there’s say for example a really traumatic fall that we need to that I know we need to move through right sometimes it’s as clear as like someone comes to me it’s like I had a literally I had this fall you know five months ago this happened and now I’m having a hard time writing and it’s very clear that that that fall is the one certainly Friday, if not one of or if not the only kind of big event we need to really work on.And so we just go super slowly.And I think one of the things that EFT came out of, right, is, and again, talk therapy has a great, you know, it’s fantastic, brings a great awareness, but I think there was a lot of studies done post, you know, post-World War II, where people were, you know, vets were coming back and they were talking about their trauma, talking about what happened, and they were getting worse.They were getting late onset PTSD, because the more they talked about it, the worse it was, right?And so, but with EFT, because it’s a trauma form of modality that kind we’re focusing on this negative piece of it, and we’re going so slowly.And as you said, we’re working on the sensory triggers, right?What they saw, what they heard, how their body received that trauma, because we processed it out the way it came in, right?It comes in through the senses, and we process it out through the senses.And so because we’re tapping, we’re bringing it up, but also at the same time, telling the body it’s safe.We’re telling the body it’s okay.We’re literally rewiring the brain because when there’s a trauma involved, your brain has tagged that event in the hippocampus with kind of a threat tag, right?So it’s being re-triggered.And what we’re doing in EFT is we’re rewiring the brain.We’re taking off that tag in the hippocampus so that that event is then restored in kind of long-term storage in your brain. So you still remember it you still, you know, it’s not like it disappears you remember if it doesn’t trigger you in the same way, it may feel suddenly more some people clients say it feels kind of fuzzy now or. maybe even has, sometimes it has either more clarity or less clarity, or it feels like it’s just kind of far away now.It just feels like this distance from it.I’ll even see clients when we first start talking about the trauma, they talk about it in first person.I see this, and they’re in the trauma, because it’s literally, from their brain, it’s happening again, right, as we’re gently bringing it up.And by the end of the session, it’s like, I heard this, and they’ve turned into past tense. Now they’re talking about it in past tense.And that’s one of the ways I can tell that now it’s starting to restore in the right part of the brain.It’s literally restoring as a long-term memory and it’s no longer a threat.So I’m not sure I answered your question.So anyway, but I guess my point was just that it really is a trauma-informed modality.We can go so gently and sort of the definition of a trauma-informed modality is we go as gently as the body needs. And that we really make sure that the body has resources to stay safe before we even go into that trauma.So it’s a very gentle technique of traumas involved.And that’s an example of like what we call big T trauma, right?Sometimes the performance anxiety piece for a lot of my clients is related to what feels like a little T trauma of literally, right?But it doesn’t matter.Like something that happened when they were eight, where they stood up and did a speech and they mispronounced a word and everyone laughed at them. And after that, they chose in that moment, that little eight year old, like, I’m not going to stand up in public again, because that was I was so alone and I was terrified and I not doing that again.And now you’re living your life from this little like eight year old part of you that made that decision, which totally makes sense.But we can go back and, you know, resource that eight year old.Not only, you know, not I mean, the the trauma practices come so long.Such comes such a long way in the last 20 years.Now, not only go back and kind of work on that pain and the trauma of that event, but give that eight-year-old what she needed in that moment, right?Give that eight-year-old, like, a voice to kind of speak to her experience and give her what she wished she’d happened in that moment or what she needed or what she lacked in that moment, whether it was support or someone to talk to or, you know, someone telling her, like, you know, yeah, whatever she needed in that moment, we can give that to her at the moment.And so sometimes even something as, you know, performance anxiety often goes back to those very common childhood events where you got laughed at, or you stood up and you got made fun of, or maybe sometimes it’s parental family of origin pieces, right?I had a client recently who the phrase, as we were working, she was like, oh my God, the phrase that came up is like, don’t be a tall poppy.I haven’t thought about that, but my mom used to tell me that all the time, like, don’t be a tall poppy, right?Don’t stand up.It’s not safe to do that.And so if you’ve kind of inherited that belief of like, don’t be a tall poppy, you’ve heard it over and over again.It’s like you learn in your family of origin, like, don’t be a tall poppy.It’s not safe.Don’t do that.And so for you showing it’s now like, oh my God, I’m like, I’m the tall poppy. So it feels unsafe.And so sometimes these, you know, it’s like secondary trauma.We just inherited someone else’s trauma.We inherited those beliefs, even if nothing per se bad happened to us.So, you know, we think of traumas, we tend to think of the big T traumas, like the big falls, but it can be these little T traumas that happened to some of your kids that were equally as devastating as an eight year old.

[SPEAKER 2]Interesting question and something that had come up as you were talking.I’m like, oh that’s interesting.I I know why I Have not enjoyed having anybody watch me When when I was really young we we couldn’t afford to Get my like get me a pony.We my parents were like, okay, if you’re gonna grow something We’re just gonna get you a horse right away.We’re not gonna go the pony road trip So I had an off-track throw bread and everybody my age at the barn had ponies.And I was bullied for it and everybody would lean on the rail and watch my lessons.And so as you’re talking, I’m like, that’s why I don’t like anybody on the rail.So I have an interesting question from that.Why do we have shame around our feelings of, for example, me brushing that off and thinking, you know, that’s not a big deal.

[SPEAKER 1]Whatever.

[SPEAKER 2]Get over it.That happened so long ago.Like, why?Why would that be a big deal?Or I’ve worked through this before.Why aren’t I over this yet?Like you had mentioned, they had a worse fall than I did, or they had something worse happen to them than I did. So I should be fine.And then, of course, my favorite one that the industry likes to use is, I fell off, so I should just get back on.

[SPEAKER 1]My God, that, yeah.That is like a very big trigger for me.

[SPEAKER 2]Why do we have this shame?Why do we, like, is there anything that you can think of that we almost have this, like tough mentality in the equestrian industry?

[SPEAKER 1]I mean, patriarchy?I mean, I think I mean, I think and I’m sort of joking, but I mean, I do think there’s this in the equestrian community and beyond it, right?It’s like this masculine energy of like, we just got to push through it and just get over it and just like literally get back on the horse, which has turned into this kind of like big masculine, literally phrase that people use who’ve never ridden, right?And so I think it is this idea of just like, push through it.And I just think it’s just coming from a place of ignorance.And I don’t mean ignorance in a negative way.I mean, the clients I work with, they’re doing the best they can.They’re using all their tools.They’re using everything they’ve been told.I tend to work with highly successful people.They’re using all the mindset tools.They’ve talked about it in therapy.They’re working really hard on it.And they’re doing all the things.So if they’re doing all the things and it is still not working, Then it’s like, the solution must be like, it has to be my fault.This must be something wrong with me.Otherwise, why is it not working?And instead, the answer is, you just don’t have the tool.

[SPEAKER 2]It’s so interesting that we do make everything our fault, it seems like.We are very quick to place the blame on ourselves.When you were saying about how we just don’t have the tools,

[SPEAKER 1]We don’t know it’s in our body, right?It’s not in your head, it’s in your body.That would be like my billboard, I think, for everything, for trauma and for life.If I’m like in indecision, like what should I do?I can’t think my way out of it.It’s like, okay, just tune into my body.I have this thought, just tune into that.Ooh, what does that feel like?Okay, and I have this other option, feel into that.It’s like the answer is so clear.And I just think that people, you know, yeah, we just think we can think our way out of it, and we’re not addressing the body piece.And I think somatic therapies, they are still on the newer side, and that’s okay, but I think that, yeah, we just don’t have, a lot of people don’t have the tools to address the, again, the trauma, whether it’s big T, little T, to get it out of their body.And you can’t positive think your way out of these things.You have to move it out of your body, and I think people just don’t have the tools. or have an awareness of the tools even sometimes.And it feels like your body’s betraying you, right?So many of my clients come to me and they’re like, it just feels like my body’s out of control.It feels like, yeah, they say it all the time.My body feels out of control.And then they feel so alone in it, right?They just feel so alone in it.And it’s so frustrating that they just, yeah, they get in that stress.They’re in that stress cycle around it.It breaks my heart.

[SPEAKER 2]Yeah, yeah, absolutely.I know I’ve definitely had feelings of the racing thoughts and things like that, and it’s not a fun place to be, especially when you’re then expected to get on a 1,000-pound animal, which your body’s like, put your feet on the ground, please.Don’t go up there.

[SPEAKER 1]Exactly.Exactly.

[SPEAKER 2]So you had mentioned goal trauma.What is goal trauma?

[SPEAKER 1]So goal trauma just means that when there’s a goal you want to take and if you have failed, before in the past at it or failed several times, that’s the piece we have to address first before you then approach the goal again.Because if there’s a part of you, right?More parts work, I do love parts work.If there’s a part of you that’s like, you’re just gonna fail again, subconsciously, right?Just gonna fail again, or you’ll probably fail like you did last time, or you’ve tried this three times already, right?Like that is always then gonna, you’re gonna end up subconsciously self-sabotaging yourself.So if there’s something that you have, tried before and failed or whether it’s a business or a questioning goal right it’s like the goal trauma is making sure you have released any trauma or feelings around not succeeding in the past because if you haven’t you are absolutely almost guaranteed to fail.

[SPEAKER 2]Okay, that makes a lot of sense.I feel like a lot of people listening, myself included, can relate to that, like the self-sabotage.Yeah, that’s really interesting.So how can, let’s say you have goal trauma or you have just rotting goals, maybe you’re not even aware of there being any goal trauma or self-sabotage, maybe you have rotting goals.How can EFT help support achieving those goals?

[SPEAKER 1]Oh, I love that question.Um, I think, well, one of the things I’ve been playing a lot with recently is like visualization is like such a powerful tool for goal setting, which is, you know, very well known.But I think if you pair visualization with tapping it just like, like, I don’t know, it’s like visualization on acid or something.So I think that’s one way if you have, if you kind of, you know, especially if you have a lot of kind of sports psychology or mindset tools to pair like any visualization you’re doing with tapping, I think really kind of gets that visualization even deeper into your body, which I think is super helpful.And I think with any goals, it’s really, There’s a technique in EFT called tailenders, right, which is like, which is when you kind of like enthusiastically kind of say your goal, and you just kind of listen for those voices in the background, right?So it’s like, so you’re like, whatever, I don’t know, I’m going to compete and begin a novice this year, right?And then in the back, you’re like, I think you probably won’t win or you want to, I don’t know, whatever comes up for you.It’s like, we can work on that belief, right?We can work on the events that cause that belief to kind of stick until you can kind of say that belief and really feel like you can embody it.And sometimes, you know, a belief you can say, I’m going to compete in a big and often 100% is a 10 out of 10 in terms of how possible it feels great, then there’s nothing to work on there.But if it feels, if there is that kind of, declaring of the goal with some enthusiasm, it’s the emotion behind it.And then you’re just listening for that, those negative Nelly, those gremlin voices that come after it.If there are those voices, those are the things we can work on.Right.And again, we’re kind of working to release those voices.And frankly, again, the events that cause those voices to be there, because beliefs are that same thing, that tabletop, right?A belief is just a thought we keep thinking.And it’s really a generalization, right?Like our, you know, trauma also takes away your sort of choices or other options, right?Suddenly when we’re, I was just telling Clinton this earlier, what was I telling her about it?Yeah, I just might forget, I forget the example, but. It takes away the choice and all the other options.It tends to be like, he’s going to spook again, as opposed to like, he might do a tiny spook and then just keep going.Or maybe he’ll just walk past it and completely ignore it.Or maybe he’ll break into a trap that will be totally fine.Or maybe he’ll just stop for a second, breathe, and then he’ll keep going.It takes away all the thousands of other options, other than what the path has told you is going to happen.

<p>[SPEAKER 2]I would love to know. If somebody, like, what is your recommendation if somebody says, okay, Sarah, this all sounds great.I love it.I want to get started with tapping, but I have no idea what to say because to my understanding, when you’re doing the tapping, you’re saying something out loud as well.Correct.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Yeah.What do you say? Well, first of all, like buried entry again, like just do the points, right?</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Okay.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]I mean, I would say if you want to learn any sort of modality, like do a couple of sessions with the practitioners.So you kind of learn it.So you have that confidence.But even if you just do the points, I said that in the beginning of just doing the points, like that’s going to calm your nervous system, that’s going to relax you.And so you can just focus on whatever that unwanted negative event emotion is.Maybe you’re just feeling nervous.And so you’re just going to tune in to wherever you’re feeling that nervousness in your body.And you’re just going to tap through the points as you tune into that nervous stomach, right?Maybe you’re going to have a difficult conversation with your trainer and you’re nervous about that.So you’re just going to focus on imagining yourself like, you know, having that conversation with your trainer, whatever, seeing yourself in the bar and talking to your trainer, just focusing on Imagining that kind of image as you just tap the points.So the key point is that we want to focus on the unwanted emotion or the negative event or that the event that we’re worried about so the focus is the most important thing you don’t actually have to speak.So the focus is that is what we want to do.I mean the. very basics of kind of the basic recipe of EFT is that we do three set up statements on the side of the hand, which are just combining like accepting what is with some compassion.Even though I feel this, I have compassion for myself.Even though I’m scared of this, I’m open to showing up in a new way, right some sort of compassion statement around just accepting what is right the irony of change is that we can’t change anything unless we accept where we are.So it’s just about acceptance and. starting on the side of the hand, and then we just go through the points and you’re just focusing on, again, the unwanted emotion or the event that you’re stressed out about, right?Oh, this meeting with my trainer, eyebrow, this meeting with my trainer, and just focusing on that.So whether you say it out loud, and sometimes you may be in a place where you don’t wanna say it out loud, right?And that’s totally fine.There’s ways to tap, again, just by focusing on what you don’t want, or the thing you’re nervous about, or that sensation in your body, And there’s also ways if you can’t, like all the time at the barn, I sometimes just tap on my collarbone point.It’s very kind of surreptitious.You don’t have to do all the points if you’re in public and you don’t want to, or your hands are dirty, you don’t want to touch your face in the barn, right?Clients all the time just stand on the stall and just kind of tap the collarbone to kind of regulate before they go halter or something like that.As I get ready, I often kind of like tap on my collarbone just to kind of breathe if there’s any sort of, I don’t know, anything I’m finding unhelpful that’s popping up or something.So there’s ways to do it, to kind of get it in the nooks and crannies of your day.And you don’t have to kind of talk out loud if you don’t want to.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]So why the side of the hand?Why, if you’re going to say something, why is it the side of the hand that you would have that statement?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Yes.So I mean, this point is just it’s the same.It’s the same point as the lymphatic system here.It’s just It’s just the starting point right again like if you didn’t want that point you could start somewhere else but it’s really just starting at that we repeat it three times with which really kind of gently. underlining this acceptance piece.It doesn’t have to be acceptance, it can be compassion, it can be sometimes, and it has to feel true to you, right?It can’t feel like that lie.So if you don’t accept it, it’s no point saying like, you know, even though I have this, even though I have all this anxiety right now, and I accept that’s how I feel.If the client is like, I don’t accept it, then great.So great.And then it’s like, even though I have all this fear right now, right now I’m choosing to take a breath, right?So it has to feel true so we can adjust it so that it feels true to the client.So if they’re not ready to accept it, they don’t have to accept it.Maybe they are open to having compassion for themselves, even if they don’t want to accept what they’re feeling.So whatever kind of works for the client, so it has to feel true to you.Like we have to have all your conscious and subconscious parts on board with the plan.And if you say something that doesn’t feel true, your subconscious is like, fuck you.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Yeah, it’s like, I’m not listening to that.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, exactly.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Can we go through a couple of the points, the most common points, just simple little ones and just saying like, just obviously explaining it out loud for our listeners to say like, putting your hand, like on this part, putting your hand just below your left eye or something like that.I’m just making these up.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]No, good instincts.So yeah, the first point is just the side of the hand.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]So- And it doesn’t matter which hand?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Nope, doesn’t matter which one.Okay.So it’s just the side of the hand.If you put your kind of, what is that?Your pointer finger, like at the base of your little finger, where kind of the little finger meets the palm, right?And I’m just going to tap with three or four fingers right on the side of the hand there.I’m just breathing and just tapping right there.So that’s the first point. The second point is the top of the head.So if you put your thumbs on the top of your ear, it’s where the middle fingers meet.So if you put your kind of like your thumb at the top of your ear, put your hands on your skull, it’s where your middle fingers meet.So it’s right at the very top of your head.And just again, you’re just going to tap with three or four fingers right there.So that’s the second point. And then we have the eye points.So the first one is right on the eyebrow.So it’s right at the base of the eyebrow where it meets the bridge of the nose.And you can just tap right there.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]That one feels nice.But maybe it’s because I’m a glasses wearer, but it feels really nice.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]It’s so normal that certain points, people are like, oh, this, oh, this one feels good.Like everyone has like a favorite point.They’re like, oh, this one, I like this one. And now we have the side of the eye.So this is right on the bone, right next to the eye.So it’s right on the ocular bone, right next to the corner of the eye.This is a lot of the time I see this kind of being drawn out of by the temples, but you want to be right on that bone right next to the eye.And I like to tap both sides, but you don’t need to, you can just tap one side, or if you know you have an injury, you can’t tap both sides, that’s totally fine. You get me tapping like, oh, just stay here.And the next one’s under the eye.So this one you can actually feel.So it’s right on the ocular bone again, right under the pupil.And there’s actually a little divot in the bone there.You can actually feel that little divot there.You can feel that divot.So that’s the divot you want to tap on.And this is the, they are all attached to kind of different, you know, organs in Chinese medicine.This is the stomach meridian if you’re into Chinese medicine. If you do have that nervous stomach, it’s a good one for any sort of nervous stomach, anxiety you have in your stomach.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]I find it so interesting how things are connected in places that you wouldn’t even think.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Like, you’re like, well, this isn’t my stomach.And then we have the under the nose is the governing meridian.So halfway between the bottom of the nose and the top lip. You can even buy on Amazon just, it’s like a hundred dollars, um, a galvanometer and it’s a little, little tiny machine that you can literally put on and it measures, it finds the meridian point for you.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Right.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]So literally it proves to you.It’s, it’s like a cool wow factor.I do it in group sessions sometimes where it’s like, you know, you can literally be like, it goes, and it like, it will beat when it’s got the meridian point.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]That’s so cool.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Yeah. Okay, let me have the chin is right between the bottom of the chin and the bottom lip.So we’re kind of right in the middle of the divot there.So again, it’s just finding those points in your body that have the highest point of connectivity and it will literally identify it for you.And then we have the collarbone, which is my, I think one of my personal favorites.So if you find the top of that kind of U-shaped bone there, And you go about an inch over and then an inch down on both sides right under the collarbone you’ll find a little kind of divot there it’s often store and a lot of people and that’s the point right there.And this is a great one because, again, this is like really great surreptitious point. I have a client right now who’s not a writer and she’s on the New York City subway and she can tap and work on this point without anyone knowing what she’s doing.It’s great if you’re at the barn because you can do it over your clothes.You don’t have to touch your face if you’ve got dirty hands.It’s very subtle.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]What’s this one connected to?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]I’m just curious.Kidney.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Okay.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]People start yawning when they tap.It’s really normal.You might start to get hot or start sweating, which just means that’s how you’re releasing the cortisol.Maybe some people get chilly.I’m like a sweater.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]I’m a sweater too.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]I’m like, I’ll release more cortisol just sweating.It’s just how I release it.Then we have under the arm.So this is like if you put your hand under your armpit, it’s right where the bottom of your hand hits.So probably if you’re someone who has a bra, like right on your bra line there.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Okay.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Oh, the spleen.Hmm.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]So now I’m doing one side and you were doing two.Does it matter or do I switch?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]No, so you can do, you can do, you can do both.Some people like to kind of cross over and do both.When I broke my shoulder.Yes.Some people, a lot of people like that way.I, I, when I broke my shoulder, I couldn’t cross over for so long that it’s almost like I still don’t have that neural pathway.It’s almost like I still forget that I can actually do that still there.So I always go like this and then I’m like, Oh wait, I can cross over now.I forgot that neural pathway is still not quite like a highway yet because I literally have to tell myself to switch. So yeah, you can do it like the monkey style, or you can cross over.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Okay.I like that.There’s a couple of those that I like I right away felt.Yeah, I’ll start to definitely start to use those I really like that I hope that those listening, and you’re able to follow along. maybe we could even, um, like share, um, if you have like a video or anything like that of the different points and how to do them, then even if we can like share that on our socials, so people can, can check that out and stuff too.So that leads me to my next thing is, um, if somebody wanted to work with you, how would they get started?Like, what is the process like?Is it, um, talking about anything?Do you go right into something?Is it very internal?What is the process like for working with you?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, so I always jump on a call with someone first, just to like talk about, you know, what their goals are, what they’re struggling with, how the nervous system is reacting, like what their, what their journey is like, right, to do that first.And then once we agree to work together, so from that call, I have a good sense of like, what the approach I want to take or where we’re going to start, right?So depending on what they’re struggling with, I know kind of what, you know, what that first few sessions probably going to look like.And generally, as I said, we kind of work on any feelings or resistance or just feelings about the issue before you can get to the issue.So the beginning of the first session is always just releasing any unhelpful feelings around the issue they’re having, right?And releasing that piece first.And then we kind of, you know, we start working and, you know, tapping is kind of a Simon Says model, right?So I’m tapping on my body as you’re tapping on your body.I’m you know, we might spend, we always do kind of a grounding, some sort of somatic grounding, just to kind of ground us into our bodies.And then I really try and keep the talking to kind of five minutes in the beginning, and then we’re just going to start tapping.And it’s kind of a Simon Says model where, yes, it’s like I’m tapping on me, you’re tapping on you, and I’m using your words.And you can always jump in if the, you know, the words don’t feel like a fit or something shifts. And we focus on the negative first, right?I think that’s a confusion around tapping sometimes.And it goes back to that piece about not immediately going to the positive, because that’s that Band-Aid non-infected wound.So we can go as gently as the body needs.But we’re going to kind of focus on those root causes of whatever that presenting issue is.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]So if someone was having a sort of resistance, or like procrastinating getting something done, Like you had said, I want to achieve this, but then a resistance of, well, why bother?You’re not going to win it anyways.How, like you had said, you kind of start that in the beginning and then you go on.Does that also look like a tapping process?How does that work?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]I think procrastination, that’s something we can really beat ourselves up for, right?And you know, procrastination is now linked to the freeze response, right?So it’s not about the thing that we’re procrastinating on.It’s about the feeling we think we will feel when we do that thing.That’s what generally is scaring us.And so with procrastination, it’s really about again, giving voice to that fear, right?And I’m someone generally, and this is a gross generalization, but we have all have kind of a window of tolerance, right?And some of us tend to be more like hyper aroused.We tend to be more, you know, we get more anxious where we get kind of spirally when we’re kind of out of our window of tolerance and other people, myself, generally, I tend to get more in that freeze response.I tend to procrastinate.I tend to shut down.I tend to kind of avoid, like that’s my kind of what I’m out of my window of tolerance.And so, you know, I think, A, the most important thing with procrastination is to really voice the fear, right?It’s like, instead of just avoiding it, it’s like, okay, what am I scared of?It’s just like, okay, even though I really don’t want to do this thing right now, I’m accepting that’s how I feel, even though I really, every part of me, no part of me wants to send the scary email. I have compassion for myself and just voicing it again.And while tapping, you know, bringing up that, the scary email, whatever it is you’re avoiding and that counter conditioning with that calming response is going to calm your nervous system.So by the end of a couple of rounds, you’re like, okay, I’ll just send the email.It’s fine.It’s going to be fine.I’m just going to do it. So we can move through the procrastination that way, as opposed to what I used to do years ago of like, I’m going to go and just like, you know, avoid it for six hours and then like, waste my day avoiding the thing and then finally do it in the last like hour of the day or something.You know what I mean?Like, it’s just, it increases our productivity so much in that way.And then the other thing I will say about that is that, you know, Again, different practices are helpful for different people.And if you are someone who tends to, like me, be more in that procrastination, hypo-aroused state, it’s like, you know, we actually need active things.Like, if you’re in more of a hypo aroused mode, like meditation is actually not going to help you in that moment, right?If you’re feeling anxious, meditation is perfect, right?But if you’re feeling in that shutdown state, you want to get your body moving, you want to do like a five minutes dance party, you want to go for a walk, you want to, you know, do some body tapping or some tapping to kind of activate yourself to kind of get you fully in back in your body.So then you can kind of show up fully. So I think with procrastination, EFT is a great tool to learn how to use as a productivity tool, frankly, because it just will move you through procrastination so much faster than kind of, yeah, just avoiding it for six hours and then eventually doing it.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Right.Yeah.And then do you find that often when it’s like, oh, I’m procrastinating this and they work through something and then they realize that there’s actually like a bigger</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, 100%.Right.Totally.Totally.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Something bigger keeping them.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Yes.Yeah.It’s like some bigger belief around like tall poppy syndrome or putting myself out there or reaching out to people in authority, you know, authoritative positions or, you know, which again, probably relates to some sort of childhood piece or something.And then we can find those events through the body, work on them.And then suddenly you’re able to show up so differently. I just worked with a client recently who was a wasn’t a horse rider and beautiful artist and writer and she she wanted to sell her paintings but she was just feeling really stuck around just like putting her work out there and you know we worked a lot on just yeah all this kind of programming around like you know playing small and you know not that she was kind of programmed as a kid about not, yeah, not being a tall poppy.And, you know, by the end of her four sessions, she had like priced her paintings, she was reaching out to agents about her new book, and she was showing up in such a different way, because she released all these old beliefs that wasn’t allowing her nervous system to feel safe. emailing an agent.Her nervous system wasn’t safe.We can judge ourselves so much because it’s like, it’s just an email.What’s the big deal?Send the email.Why am I being so dumb?We just judge ourselves for it. But it’s like, there’s some younger version of us that doesn’t feel safe or our nervous system doesn’t feel safe.And that’s what we can go back with EFT and teach your body it is safe or that that eight-year-old is okay or whatever, you know, whatever that kind of those core events are so that then you can show up differently.And it’s almost, a client say to me all the time, she was like, yeah, it was just weird.Like I just did the email and it was like, And it’s almost like the thing just, the issue just kind of floated away and it almost feels surreal because it was like something she’d been struggling with.It was just like, I just did it.It was like, it was weird.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]I love that.I love that for your client as well as like her being able to show up fully and to express herself and her art and all of that.That’s one of those things where it’s, I’m sure such a, a gift to you as a practitioner to experience that, to be helping the people?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, 100%.It’s such a privilege to watch someone, to have a client that… It’s funny, because before this life, I was an actor. a whole different conversation, but, and I used to say as an actor, people would, you know, very kind of pompous, but people would say, what kind of stories would you like to tell?What kind of roles would you like to play?And I always said, like, I really love playing women who like are kind of really feeling trapped and, you know, like to break free from something or like stuck between two places, you know, a marriage or this, or between two countries, two cultures, right.And, and they’re breaking free, right?That was always the story I’d like to tell.There’s always some theme in that in the movies I loved.And like, there was just that theme was there, right?And what I do now is like the deepening of that purpose.Like that felt so kind of ethereal and kind of in theory, that’s what I do or love to do.And I vaguely did it.I mean, I was doing it, I was an actor, but this is like such a tangible way, like to have a client come to me and say, sometimes it’s really simple.Like I got in the stall and I halted my horse with like, no problem.And it was easy.And I just tapped for a moment and then she came to me and I put the halter on and I did it.And it’s like such a gift when something has been scary or upsetting or not possible and suddenly it’s possible.And you know, that’s not on me.That’s just like, they’re doing the work.I’m just kind of like, you know, I don’t know, conduit or, you know, it’s them, they’re doing it, but to be able to witness it is such, yeah, it’s beautiful, like to see someone find that freedom again and find that peace, clarity, oneness, whatever you want to call it.It’s, yeah, such a privilege.I’m honored to be there and it’s, yeah, it’s gorgeous.And what’s interesting, another client to me yesterday said, I was like, who’s wondering about this?Can I ask you a question?And I was like, sure.She’s like, do you ever have to like, you know, you deal with a lot of trauma.Do you ever have to like tap about the trauma that people tell you about or something?You know, like does that happen?</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Yeah, that’s a good question.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, totally a good question.And I was like, no, because I’m tapping too, right?I’m also self-regulating as you’re doing it.And because of mirror neurons, as you shift, I’m shifting subconsciously.But right, my mirror neurons are firing like crazy when I’m tapping with you. So everything you shift subconsciously is like working on my brain.So, you know, selfishly, I’m kind of getting all the shifts you’re getting in the same way.I leave it like a full day of tapping with people.And I’m like, a lot like I’m like, so energized, right?It’s that, you know, I don’t, I don’t actually know how traditional therapists do it.Because I feel like that would be a lot like if I was just talking about it, I’d be like, very heavy.Oh, my God, so heavy. Yeah, but because I’m tapping, it’s I’m also continually to self, you know, self regulating.And that’s ultimately what EFT to is a self regulation to emotional regulation tool.So I’m constantly regulating, and I’m also getting your shifts as you’re getting them.So I’m getting kind of all those benefits subconsciously, too.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]It’s interesting.I loved when you said about, you know, the past life being an actor and, um, he loved to tell the story of breaking free.And it’s like, before you were, you were telling the story of breaking free and now you’re actually helping people break free, you know, because at the end of the day, like limiting belief of fear of phobia or whatever, like that is, you know, a subconscious cage.And so it’s like, You know, I just, when you said that, I was like, oh, that’s so cool.Like, I love that connection.Yeah, really, really cool.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Yeah.It’s so funny.I, um, yeah, I mean, you know, I obviously wouldn’t wish my husband’s stroke on him, but, um, there’s been many gifts, you know, out of what was a very traumatic event and was certainly not, um, yeah, did not see this right turn coming.And, um, yeah, like this shift into this, you know, into this modality has been like such a, yeah, just beautiful shift and yes.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]So cool.Are there any other practices that you do personally or that you recommend to people other than EFT?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]I mean, we, you know, we kind of talked about that like hypo, hyper arousal.Like I do think kind of, for clients it’s helpful for clients to know kind of which way they tend to lean and also we all in different moments do different things like sometimes we get anxious other times in other areas of our life we get hypo aroused like of course it’s there’s a spectrum but I think it’s helpful to kind of know you know like what tools you can have.I’m a big fan of like five-minute dance parties because I just think it gets you in your body and moving.I love like my dog loves it when I do it too.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]We join in together, it becomes a dog and Dan dance party.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Even my 13-year-old son who might be in a grumpy phase with me about something, even he will join me for a dance party if he hears me playing music.So even that is like, yeah, it’s connected with him.So I think it’s helpful for clients to know some options, whether it’s going for a walk or some simple shaking practices and things if they’re you know, feeling hyper aroused, or making sure they do have a couple of meditations, they can use if they’re feeling anxious, and they may be tapped, and they want to try something else, or, you know, they can do kind of a guided meditation before bed or something like that.And I’m a big fan of meditation.What are the tools?I mean, in terms of the questions, I do love heart coherence.I think I know you’ve had guests who talked about that in the past.I think that’s just such a It’s just very calming, right?And it’s so simple.All you’re doing is just kind of like focusing on your heart, imagining that slow breath coming in and out of your heart and just like choosing something that brings you compassion and just kind of tuning into that as you let it expand.And if you’re with your horse, it’s like, that is the thing of compassion.Like, I love that.Like I saw a picture of you and I think like leaning on one of your horses the other day.And I love that just like- Oh, my mare loves when I do that.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]She’s like, okay, I’m here for it.Like she’ll see me come in and she comes right up.She loves that.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]I love it.I love it.So just like, yeah, like, like, like just leaning over a horse and just get getting into heart coherence.I just think, which just means if anyone doesn’t know in heart coherence, it just means like that nice, steady rhythm, right?If we don’t come into heart coherence, that heartbeat can be kind of all over the place and coming into heart coherence just means you have that steady heartbeat.And I think that’s another, Like I always try and make sure I’m in heart coherence before I enter the stall and just kind of take a moment to do that.I think that’s really just another way to kind of show up for your horse as I, yeah, as I, in integrity or kind of without my stuff, you know?I completely agree, yeah. I love grounding, which is hard to do with horses.You don’t want to be trying to get your feet trodden on, but I love like this really like whole body on a beach, right?As much as my body on a beach or grass, like just feet on the ground, like walking on the earth, I think is super grounding, like taking your shoes and socks off and standing on the earth, lying on the earth, if you can do that safely, like getting as much of your like naked flesh, like directly on the grass or lying on the grass, I think is like deeply healing. um really kind of balances those kind of electromagnetic energies um and I think for me like my leading edge of growth in this kind of area is like that famous this I forget who says it around just like anytime we feel like you don’t have time to do that sort of practice, that’s the time you must do it, right.So that’s definitely like was like a leading edge of growth for me, I feel like because it’s like I have time, no, we’re gonna do it right now.That’s, that’s, this is exactly the time that you’re going to take that five minutes and do it because it’s going to give you back that time.That’s what every time it’s like, it’s always a lesson, it gives you back that time, you’re so much more relaxed, your your full cognitive function is back online. you’re calmer, suddenly the idea, the solution pops into your head, you’ve saved yourself all this time, like you get back that time, right?And I think my other leading edge of growth is using tapping and these tools of kind of like mini breaks in my day, right, of whether that’s it could be move sometimes it’s movement like literally more like exercise movement sometimes it’s like tapping for a couple of minutes but giving myself these like micro movements because I think that sometimes time can be a barrier to entry to people and just that I’m really trying to be in the practice of just kind of giving little micro movements to my nervous system to like regulate myself during the day as opposed to kind of waiting to the end of the day or when something comes up.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]And, um, Yeah, I think that’s actually a really good idea to like do little spurts here and there throughout the day, rather than at the end when it’s like, it’s no different than if, if somebody, let’s say you have a hard conversation that you’re thinking in the back of your mind, you have to bring up with somebody or somebody said something and it kind of irked you. If you continue to let that build and build and build and build and build, it’s just going to become this big blow up thing versus if you just have those small little things as they arise.I think that that can apply in so many different ways that throughout the day, if we can just be checking in with ourselves, having a moment to be like, hey, how am I feeling?Hey, what’s coming up for me right now?And just bringing it back.I think that’s so much more effective, essentially. then if you let it build, and then it could be overwhelming, and then you’re like, oh my god, I have so much stuff to work on, I don’t feel like doing it right now.Or what it might be like.It’s the same as if I say I’m gonna drink eight glasses of water a day, it’s gonna be a lot easier if I drink one glass per hour than if I wait till the end of the day and I try to chug them all at once.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Totally, yeah, 100%.And it’s just, yeah, it’s like that, Yeah, it’s so true.It’s like the age old, like, I’m going to start exercising.Great.I’m going to go to the gym every day this week, starting today for the rest of my life.Right.It’s like you’re setting yourself up for failure.And so and I do think like those micro check ins, as you said, with your body, it’s like it builds trust with your nervous system, too.It builds trust with like, oh, I’m listening to you.It’s safe for me to send you signals.I’m going to check in with you.And, you know, you’re going to grow that relationship with your nervous system and your body just like you would with anyone else. right, you’re building that trust, you’re building that check in.And, and I think, yeah, that’s definitely like, where I my kind of leading edge of growth is just, you know, just, yeah, just checking in.And what do you need?And sometimes I’m really asking, like, tuning into your body, like, you can just tap a little bit tuning into it.And just like asking, what do you need right now?And sometimes it needs like a five minute nap.And sometimes it needs a dance party.And sometimes it needs you to just like, sit on the couch and zone out for five minutes, you know, whatever it needs.But it does tend to tell you if we listen to it and we start being in the practice of listening to your body in that way.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]I love that.I think that’s a huge takeaway from this.And so I want to bring this back to the equestrian industry really quick.I know we had talked a little bit about how we kind of have that mental toughness or we have that, like, shame around you know, fears and all of those things.But I do think that there’s just a lot of work that the equestrian industry can be doing for us humans, or that we humans can be doing for ourselves, which in turn will benefit the equestrian industry.But what is your hope for the future of the equestrian industry in relation to your work?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Well, you mentioned it earlier, but one of my biggest pet peeves is the whole get back in the saddle.I have so many clients who, I mean, I know they’re well-meaning, trainers who they have a fall and they’re like, OK, get back on and they get back on and they come to me and then they’re like, I don’t know, I got back on.I just felt like I was in a haze or I just kind of they literally will say I felt like I was kind of frozen and I did the round that I thought it was fine.I stayed on.I did it. and now they were in their own trees and they’re riding and that is so detrimental to the nervous system.I mean, that causes the trauma.So it’s like, so listen, I mean, yes, sometimes we can have falls and I’ve had those falls where it’s like, I’m totally fine, oh my God, nothing’s hurt but my ego and I’m just gonna get them back on and I’m fine.So that’s a different story.But if your body feels in any way activated, like take five minutes, take 10 minutes, take a week, take whatever you need, There’s this idea that if you don’t get back on right away, you’ll lock in and you’ll never… That’s just bullshit.Sorry, I’m swearing now.And it is so… Literally, you are locking in… If you’re riding and you’re still activated, you are locking in danger and trauma to your nervous system. And we have to be able to, if something happens that was scary, and it’s traumatic, and we have to allow that to process out of our body, and let it kind of complete that trauma cycle in the body, right?Peter Levine, like let that trauma cycle, let it complete.So your brain is like, okay, I was in the past, it happened, it was scary, but right in this moment, I’m okay.It was in the past, I’m okay. right?And then great, get back on the horse, right?And so if you need five minutes, like, you know, shake, literally shake it off.Like if you’re feeling shaky, that is great.That’s your body moving that time out of your body.So take 10 minutes and like, you know, shake it out.Or if you need more time, great, ride tomorrow, whatever it is.But this idea that we have to just like get back in the saddle, like it’s just, it’s so detrimental.And I have so many clients who if they I think if they honestly took time to move it out of their body and took a walk, they wouldn’t be working with me.Because it’s so, it just interrupts that, your natural processing of a traumatic event.And it’s very, yeah, it’s just really detrimental to the nervous system.So I feel very passionately about that.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]That’s a really good point to make.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]And it’s so old school, right?As kids it all happened, right?It’s such an old school thing and we’ve moved past this and people need to get on board with it.It’s like old programming from decades ago when we didn’t know better, but now we know better, so we have to do better.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]And then also, too, just from the horse perspective, maybe that was a little bit of a traumatic moment for the horse.And then suddenly, they don’t have the time to process it.And suddenly, somebody is getting back on their back again.I mean, there’s just so many different ways to look at it.But I think that’s a really good point to make, absolutely.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Yeah.We have to allow the trauma cycle to complete.And if it’s interrupted, you’re going to lock in that trauma.It has to be able to be completed.Yeah.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Sarah, we have four rapid fire questions that we ask every podcast guest.And yeah, they’re just like whatever pops into your mind and that you think of.The first one is, do you have a motto or a favorite saying?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]It’s not in your head, it’s in your body.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Oh, so good.It’s irrelevant.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]I love it.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]The second one is, who has been the most influential person in your equestrian journey?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]my husband because if I, we didn’t really talk about this, but my journey as a writer as an equestrian, like I wrote as a kid, grew up in England and moved to America. Parents couldn’t afford it, didn’t really ride as a college or anything.Was dabbling in it as an adult.Would always say it was my favorite thing to do.Loved it.Always was my passion.Would only do it on vacation, do it occasionally.Wasn’t really actively prioritizing it.And it wasn’t until my husband’s stroke, a year and a half after that, when things started to settle down and we found our way in this new normal, It was like the famous thing of life is short, you don’t know what’s going to happen.If I don’t prioritize my writing now, when am I going to prioritize it?And if this hadn’t happened, I don’t know, maybe I still would just be writing a few times a year.And now, yeah, well, I bought my first horse 12 days ago.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Oh my gosh, congratulations, that’s huge.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Thank you.But yeah, now I’m like, you know, writing regularly.That was not on the to-do list.That was a very surprise thing 12 days ago.But anyway.But 100%, like if that hadn’t happened, again, that was a gift out of a crazy experience.And I think he’s experienced his own gifts out of the experience, too.So he would be OK with me saying that.And yeah, so 100%.Weirdly, my husband and his stroke definitely You know, it’s that thing, those big near-death, big moments, you realize what’s important.And it was absolutely that.And it was like, if I’m not doing it, what am I doing?So that’s 100% been the biggest influence.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]If you could give equestrians one piece of advice, what would it be?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Well, for those of you struggling with anxiety or trauma, I just would say that You’re not alone.There’s nothing wrong with you.You just don’t have the right tool.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Yeah, that’s a good one.And the final one, please complete this sentence.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]For me, horses are… I’ve heard you ask this question before and every time what comes into my head is everything.And I judge that answer because it feels so like… I know, it feels so like horse girly or feels so like, I don’t know, I’m judging my answer, but I feel that way.I feel like it is, horses are in all areas of my life, right?Like they’re to me a passion.Someone said to me recently, I wish I had something in my life that I loved as much as you love horses. And it’s such a gift.Some people don’t have that.You sort of forget that sometimes.But I do, like, it brings me so much joy.I feel like they bring me back into oneness, right?They bring me back into, oh, this is what life should feel like.This is what it feels like when you’re connected, when you’re in the moment, when we’re in the now, where other things feel less important. Life will work itself out, right?Like gets back into the truth of them, which is easy to forget, right?Their connection, which is like a human need.We all need like that connection we have with our animals.I also think they’re just an amazing mirror, right?For us as humans and growth for us as humans, right?Both from a somatic aspect and other, you know, sort of, more sort of mental aspects.Even the other day, I was riding in the day and I was with my trainer.There was no one else in the ring but me and my trainer.And she said something about like, just open up your chest a little bit.And I just opened up my chest ever so slightly.And I immediately thought, oh my god, this feels, I feel so exposed.Not from a, like, I feel unsafe in the saddle way, but in a, oh my god, everyone’s looking at me kind of way. There was no one there.There’s literally no one there.And I was like, oh wow, this is something I’ve really got to explore.I really feel like this does not feel safe for my nervous system to be, and it was ever such a micro movement.It wasn’t like I suddenly was like pushing my shoulders back, right?It was a very just like, open your chest a little bit, just open up a little bit.And as soon as I did that, I had that somatic sensation of like, oh, this does not feel safe to be this exposed.And I thought, oh, I’m going to explore that. So they give you these somatic cues as we work with our bodies and their bodies.And then, you know, just, you know, and I think they give us these lessons because they’re so important to us, right?Like writing, it’s a passion.Our animals are so important to us that just everything is heightened because it matters so much to us.So the lessons we get from them are just so I think it’s just so valuable.Absolutely.And someone wise, I don’t know who, said, the way we do anything is the way we do everything.So what we learn, how we show up for our courses, what we’re frustrated with, what’s not working, where we’re judging ourselves, it’s like, oh, any time that happens, I’m like, why am I judging myself in other areas of my life in this way?Where’s my relationship to? It’s interesting, it’s just such a mirror.I have so many more aha moments in my that journey that then I can then be like, oh, where is that showing up in other areas?So I think they’re just, they’re amazing mirrors and growth opportunities if we let them.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Yeah, they are quite literally, I agree with you in the sense of saying everything, but they are quite literally everything in the sense of, I feel that they teach me how to be a human. More than being a human teaches me how to be a human.In terms of body language, like all of the things, I completely agree with you.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Because they don’t do bullshit, right?They’re like, you’re not showing up.You’re funky right now.I’m not into it.Yeah. There’s no like, okay, there’s no like smile, instead of like, oh, you’re a little funky, let’s go with it.It’s like, no, I’m not going with it.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Yeah, I don’t like that energy, come back again, like fix yourself and come back.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]I’m a hard no for that.I’m a hard hell no.Yeah, absolutely.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Sarah, what we’ve been discussing today is so incredibly important.Where can people find you and how can they connect with you to learn more, work with you, all of the things?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, so I’m at Sarah Louise Lilly on Instagram.I have a small but mighty community there.I send out kind of weekly or twice a month depending kind of really great actionable tips and inspiring stories to my community every Thursday or every other Thursday so they can go to emotional freedom with Sarah. to sign up for that if they’re interested in that.And if anyone wants to jump on a call with me, I’m always happy to chat about EFT if you have questions or how to kind of apply it in your situation.So yeah, anyone who’s interested, please reach out.I’m always happy to nerd out on EFT with you.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Awesome.We’ll link both your Instagram and your website where people can join your newsletter and our show links so people can find it there.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Awesome.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Thank you so much, Sarah. I feel like there were so many times you were talking and I was like, I have to remember my next question.I’m just so tuned in what you’re saying.I really, really enjoyed our conversation.So thank you so much for being here.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Thank you so much for having me.I thoroughly enjoyed it also.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Thank you for listening to this episode of the Equestrian Connection podcast by WeHorse.If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a rating and review, as well as share us on social media.You can find us on Instagram at WeHorse underscore USA, and check out our free seven-day trial on WeHorse.com, where you can access over 175 courses with top trainers from around the world in a variety of topics and disciplines. Until next time, be kind to yourself, your horses, and others.</p>